If You Go to Church You Are Guilty As Hell
One of my perspectives has changed again. It’s amazing how dialogue and writing turns on new light bulbs. Truly, for a born again Christian blogger Facebook supplies more material than one could ever write about. It’s the gift that just keeps giving.
Consider a few examples to begin my first point before I get to the Facebook exchange. CJ Mahaney is back and bigger than ever. Jim Bakker, yes, Jim Bakker is back and bigger than ever. GARB and Cedarville University are bigger than ever despite the ABWE missionary Kids scandal which by the way included not only child rape but kidnapping, and a 20-year coverup of such. The President of Cedarville University even stated publically that Christians still need salvation. John Piper states such continually. And, it’s business as usual; in fact, business is booming. After all, if salvation is a onetime personal affair, what would you need them for?
The reason is simple and something I saw in the institutional church for years before I left it: salvation can only be found in church membership and submission to its orthodoxy. This is also stated unequivocally in its founding doctrinal statements whether Protestant or Catholic.
Until today, I blamed those rascally church leaders for all of this and was forgiving of the poor misinformed, misled innocent sheep. No, the fact is, if you go to church, you are guilty as hell. You are supporting a lie, and there is no justice for the church’s victims because like the devils that gave birth to the church, churchians do not share God’s love for justice.
Full stop. No evil has ever been put down in the church by the church. Evil has always been stopped in the church by someone going outside of the church and seeking help from the secular authorities. Why? Because the infidels have more love for justice than the church. Not complicated. And what is “justice”? Justice defends life value. An “eye for an eye” is not about revenge, it’s about defending life. See it for yourself in the founding doctrinal statements of the church: life is evil and must be continually crucified. Church isn’t about a one-time death that brings forth a never ending Spring and fountain of life, it is about dwelling in death. That’s stated church orthodoxy. And moreover, dwelling in death is the stated gateway to joy. It’s a formal church doctrine known as Mortification and Vivification. It’s a stated orthodoxy of death. It’s about death…that’s church…period.
Hence, victims are relegated to the basement closets because what does one expect in a temple of death but death itself? What we have today is parishioners leaving one Protestant temple for lesser death in another Protestant temple where the same logic has not yet fully played itself out. Therefore, at least for the time being, one is in a “more loving church” where sinful elders sin less, but hark, we must remember that there is no perfect church and we are all just sinners saved by grace. Amen, but nevertheless, you support the system and you are guilty as hell—you are no less a “Good German” of Nazism fame.
Don’t blame it on Calvinism; don’t blame it on “Reformed theology.” Church is Reformed theology; church is Calvinism. Calvinism isn’t the problem; church is the problem. Predestination is not the core issue; the exact same soteriology is the issue. A different application of the same evil does not make the evil unevil.
So before I copy and paste the Facebook dialogue that led to this post, what’s the answer? That’s not complicated either. God’s people must start functioning like the family they are rather than an institution that dispenses ongoing salvation in return for a temple tax. The whole system must be rejected for the sake of God’s love. In other words, for the first time in your life, read the book of Acts with your own mind and simply let the words say what they say, not what some man with six bogus titles after his name says they say. Words mean things.
But if you do nothing else, stop supporting church. Stop being guilty as hell.
Begin dialogue.
Paul, my freedom in Christ is a soul issue. Man has tried insisting on speaking for Him since the beginning. You make good valid points, but no one has the power to steal what He gives. And no rulers, church or state, will ever be on the truly right side where He is!
Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that no one is perfect so all bets are off?
Not sure what you are saying! I am His child Paul. I have a peace and joy that cannot be stolen. It is a simple statement.
24/7 uninterrupted peace and joy. Wow, that’s pretty impressive.
Paul, I honestly do not know where you are coming from. But I learned as a teenager that an awful lot of life is going to be out of my control. The foundation He gives is not. I sense a deep sarcasm in you and for that I am sad. I have no doubt you have been scalded by something. Me too. But one thing I do know— this kind of conversation is not productive. You are looking for discord and you are not going to get it from me. I simply know that at the end of any day, no matter how bad, God. Loves. me., and one day I am going home. And yes, I find great joy in that.
I will not comment on “where I am coming from” in this stream because my initial comments are gone. But I will comment on what I think bothers me about you overall. You are a typical parishioner who parrots institutional church talking points flavored with supposed humble godliness. Point in case: “no one has the power to steal what He gives.” Oh really? The church hasn’t stolen the innocence of many young children over the years? And yes, this is the exact rhetoric we hear from churchians when someone wants to hold the church accountable.
No, you don’t yell at them and attack them verbally which you have decried in your post, you feed them pious sounding institutional church talking points and tell them to “move on with life” and,…here it is,…don’t miss it…”no church is perfect” so in essence, yes, all bets are off. You represent mainline evangelicalism that has not held itself accountable for a litany of contemporary atrocities. When it is all said and done after ABWE, SGM, to name a meager few, it is business as usual. Yes, look around, totally business as usual.
And why is this? Well, the hypocrisy is endless. While claiming trust in JESUS ALONE the real trust is in the institutional church and that is exactly why the church always survives its scandals; the congregants are its supporters and enablers. They hide behind “bad churches and good churches,” “high controlling churches versus churches that aren’t like that,” and “no mere church can take away what Jesus has given,” and the ever-handy “cult” nomenclature while deep in their hearts they know it is the system that is the problem.
Hence, while giving tacit agreement to my original comment you sensed a slight offense against the institution that you trust for your salvation and lobbed the usual pious sounding talking points at me which by the way is sugar-coated condescension. But before I get to that, let me highlight the usual speaking for God and defining Him according to man’s tradition which always makes God the creator of evil. Since nobody can take away what Jesus has given, any parishioner who feels like the church has taken away something originally given by God; you know, like a marriage or virginity, only have themselves to blame for being unspiritual.
This is victim blaming and makes God appear as an advocate for evil to the unregenerate. Again, victim blaming in order to protect the church is a result of where the real trust for salvation is placed—the institutional church. And hark, it just so happens that church orthodoxy states that exactly in its founding doctrinal statements.
Now, while you decry those who personally attack people who expose selective evil, you are somehow pious because you didn’t call me names, but rather made statements about me that result in logical conclusions demanding numerous unflattering labels. This is typical and reveals the true arrogance of those sold out to the institutional church. Note that you were more knowledgeable about life than me by the time you were a teenager. Well, aren’t you special? Note that my pathetic mindset is so pathetic that it can’t even warrant anger but only pity. My mindset, therefore, makes you “sad.” Such a loving soul you are. And lastly, I have nothing to bring to the table in any discussion about life because my only motive is to “look(ing) for discord.”
And what about my “sarcasm”? Let me help you with that. It’s a survival mechanism for dealing with putrid hyper-hypocrisy that blames my Father for evil and in reality lifts up misfits like John Piper above God. And by the way, try reading your Bible for yourself and you will find that sarcasm was a communication tool used by Jesus and Paul often. There is something else I can mention as well though this could be a book; joy results in knowing that God loves you no matter how “bad” you are. Yep, that’s the Cross Chart.
That’s the good old-fashioned orthodoxy that you trust and will protect and enable at any cost because it’s what you truly trust for your salvation. In essence, the antithesis of love because it rejoices in evil. The depth of your badness results in joy because of God’s grace. In reality, that’s just a really bad idea.
Now, let me share the joy of having my own blog. You will certainly delete this dialogue as perhaps you did the other because it slighted the institutional church that you trust for your salvation, but this nevertheless will make a great post for the blog today.
Wow, just wow……for the life of me I can’t understand how in the world my friend deserves the attack you have just made on her. The reason she and I both friended you was because we saw your posts on Calvinism. She and I have both been hurt by the “reformed” and from different churches. We were really interested in your take on it. I had no idea the anger you hold toward those who don’t agree with you. For some reason, it seems you want to just argue. I see an unfollow in sight. I’m so sorry you feel the need to attack with your pride of intellect. Just so sad.
You just furthered my point entirely. Calvinism is church. Reformed is church. You can’t separate the two. Actually, I could make a good living defending the “church” against “Calvinism” and actually passed on an opportunity to do so. Calvinism isn’t the problem, church is the problem. Christ’s body is a family and not an authoritative institution. When I first published “The Truth About New Calvinism” I was quickly becoming the darling of the anti-Reformed crowd until I realized that the anti-Reformed crowd is Reformed. And, my willingness to proclaim the truth with a few encouragers results in the following label: “angry.” Yes, I am an “angry man.” LOL! I wear that as a badge of honor.
And by the way, does this make me the same kind of angry guy that she praises in her initial post? Uh, I lost my wife too because of a church but no other church would come to my defense. Sooooo, please help me be the good kind of angry that you think so much of.
..and no other church came to my defense nor the guy she praises; why? Because where would people get their salvation if the institution was held accountable? That’s why. You can’t have it both ways.
End relevant dialogue.
So there you have it folks; it is alright to be angry against “bad” churches, but not the system itself though predicated on false justification with a perpetual death application that supposedly brings joy. You may think I was somewhat harsh with these ladies, but this is not an issue that will come to light by tiptoeing around; anything but directness in regard to this subject will be taken and heard the way one prefers to hear it. Unfortunately, in regard to this particular subject rooted deep in tradition, you know that you have made your point if people are offended. And…
…it also reveals what they really hold dear in the face of truth, an institution.
paul
An Open Letter to Rob Turner; Former Lead Teacher of APEX Church
Paul M. Dohse on behalf of TANC Ministries:
Dear Rob,
I will begin my open letter to you by reminding everyone that your recent “fall” has become a commonplace event among well-known Protestant leaders. Almost weekly now, we hear of another Protestant personality being “disqualified” for ministry. Sadly, these events will continue to be handled the same way: damage control rather than a pause for hard questions.
Our message to you follows: there is an immense silver lining in the dark clouds now hanging over your life. You may consider this silver lining because of numerous contradictions that mark Protestantism; e.g., while Protestant ministers such as yourself continually emphasize what amounts to the total depravity of the saints, you must step down when you fall. What other behavior should be expected? It makes no sense.
Another reality we think you should consider follows: the preference given to leaders such as yourself when these episodes arise. As set against the egregious testimonies that we hear from people ravaged by the biblical counseling movement that you have endorsed, the elders had a discussion with you and a course of action was decided on together. Also, your wife mentioned in her letter that you and she have decided to remain at APEX.
Truly, the reading of those words dumbfounded us. The average hardworking layperson that has been paying your salary all of these years has no such options. This ministry continues to aid people who are brought up on church discipline for merely attempting to leave a church without the permission of the elders. You have had close associations with churches who practice this kind of control. In fact, APEX is presently instructing its members on how to think about what has transpired, and guidelines for discussing it with others. An official announcement was withheld until these publications were prepared. Sorry, but this reeks of cultism.
So what is the silver lining that we suggest you consider? The almost weekly moral failures of leadership, the double standard, and cult-like control policies flow from a false gospel. You find yourself in the present situation because of the false gospel of progressive justification. Protestants call it “progressive sanctification,” but this is disingenuous at best.
The crux of this false gospel is elementary. Its doctrine of double imputation effectively denies and redefines the new birth and keeps “Christians” under law. It makes perfect law-keeping the standard for justification rather than the new birth. Supposedly, this is acceptable because Jesus keeps/kept the law for us, but that is NOT righteousness “apart from the law.” Protestantism suffers from a single perspective on law and sin resulting in a denial of a literal new birth into the family of God.
Any gospel stating that Jesus came to obey the law perfectly so that His obedience can be imputed to our sanctification is a false one and circumvents direct acts of love performed by the saints. Hence, when it gets right down to it, any real acts of love are really performed by Jesus and not us. I would invoke sarcasm here and note that this has become evident, but sadly, this also falsely accuses Christ of being sovereignly responsible for evil in the church.
Trust me; your episode is not God’s will. However, it is God’s will that something good comes of it. You have a choice: consider your former investments rubbish in exchange for Christ, or try to salvage whatever is left of your own former glory.
I suggest you turn away with prejudice from another fruit flowing from this false gospel: the Protestant cult of personalities that ultimately led to your present opportunity.
Paul M. Dohse on behalf of TANC Ministries.
Related: posted 7/22/2013 regarding Rob Turner appointment at Cedarville University
When Will God’s People Get It? “By Their Fruits You Will Know Them” Another YRR Falls
Live link for today’s program: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/falsereformation/2016/08/07/by-their-fruits-you-will-know-them-another-yrr-falls
When Will God’s People Get It? “By Their Fruits You Will Know Them” Another YRR Falls
This week’s Protestant leader removed from ministry for disqualifying sin is Rob Turner, the “lead teacher” of APEX which is a Reformed central authority overseeing home fellowships. This motif has become commonplace. Protestantism, which is now primarily expressed in the present-day Neo-Calvinist movement, has no testimony or message that the world would even venture to take seriously. Presently, Protestantism is surviving on what’s left of traditional credibility and the idea of salvation by church membership.
Little by little, people devoted to God are beginning to look for a real alternative. This is the subject of today’s program.
APEX announcement: http://www.apexcommunity.org/importantannouncement/
Let’s Pretend: Cedarville University Cares About the Gospel
Originally published June 10, 2013
“Did you know Christians still need to be saved? Well, bless your heart, it may be too late for you, but quickly enroll your children at Cedarville where they can be saved by Dr. White’s gospel.”
Nobody wants to discuss the gospel that has been running the show in the American church for several years. Launched by a Reformed think tank in 1970, it seized control of evangelicalism in the mid-1990s. Propagators continually put forth the idea that they are the new sheriffs in town and they need time to straighten things out, but the fact is that their gospel has been running the show for almost twenty years now. Are we better off? Hardly.
We aren’t talking about mere semantics here. We are talking about the heart of the gospel. We are talking about the law’s relationship to grace. We are talking about the very definition of justification. New Calvinism keeps the believer under law, but supposedly that’s ok because Jesus keeps it for us. No, under law is under law no matter who keeps it. God will not honor a false gospel. The New Calvinists aren’t fixing anything—they are creating the mess with their backdoor antinomianism.
The new President of Cedarville College is just what the trustees were looking for: handsome; educated; an adventurist; sports enthusiast; the appearance of pure orthodoxy; the Mayberry RFD family—all the things that bring in admissions from suburbia Christianity. Hope has returned to Cedarville; the alumni can once again look at themselves in the mirror. Yes, he’s good, even being a student of New Calvinism for six years now, it took me forty minutes to positively identify him as a New Calvinist heretic. I consider him one of the best at masking his false gospel.
Dr. Thomas White and his wife were both educated at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, a bastion of Christian mysticism and New Calvinism. But a statement on his blog says it all:
When the Gospel drives everything we do, we see all of us need grace every day. We all have deceitfully wicked hearts and preaching a moralistic set of rules will never save but will only add a burden that mankind cannot bear. We should teach about theological realities such as adoption, redemption, forgiveness, and grace. We should become protectors of widows and orphans and fathers to the fatherless.
We need to proclaim loudly the biblical message that children are a blessing from the Lord, that life begins at the moment of conception, that we must fear God more than any opinion of man, and that the Gospel brings grace if one repents and believes. No matter any judge’s verdict, we must defend life now, not wait until the morning after.
For the most part this reads well, but the devil is in the details. The greatest errors are always closest to the truth. Does the gospel drive EVERYTHING we do? Does the same gospel that saved us continue to completely drive our Christian life? You know, the “gospel-driven life.” The “gospel-centered life.” Do Christians continue to need grace every day? What does he mean by “grace”? The common grace we expect from God every day, or the same grace that saved us? Do Christians need daily salvific grace? Is that what he means? Sure it is, for he goes on to write,
We all have deceitfully wicked hearts….
Is that true? Do born-again Christians have “wicked hearts”? Yes, according to New Calvinists. That’s why we need the gospel every day.
Like with all New Calvinists, we receive the same ambiguous rhetoric from White that masks his false gospel:
….preaching a moralistic set of rules will never save but will only add a burden that mankind cannot bear.
“Mankind” is thrown in to knock you off the scent. This kind of New Calvinist deception is protocol. The “preaching” refers back to “we” and “us” in the previous sentence including “all.” That would be us, as in CHRISTIANS, the fact that New Calvinists see us as no different than the unregenerate (and therefore still under the law) notwithstanding.
Furthermore, try not to close your eyes because a shocking scene is coming:
1. Rules in the Bible are called “moralistic.”
2. And, preaching rules will never “save” Christians.
Did you know Christians still need to be saved? Well, bless your heart, it may be too late for you, but quickly enroll your children at Cedarville where they can be saved by Dr. White’s gospel.
Somehow, they will become moral and serving as well. Dr. White will teach them two different things that supposedly yield godly results:
A. They are still totally depraved.
B. They should value life and help the poor.
Really? Dr. White also states that we should….”teach about theological realities such as adoption, redemption, forgiveness, and grace.” “Obedience” and “sanctification” and “discipleship” are conspicuously missing. And there is a reason for that.
Like all New Calvinists, Dr. White will propagate a gospel contemplationism that supposedly results in the imputation of Christ’s obedience to the believer in sanctification. That’s because we are still under the law and Christ’s obedience must be imputed to our sanctification so that we can live our Christian life in the same way we were saved: by faith alone. Synergistic sanctification is believed to be works salvation. It’s antinomian let go and let God theology.
Again, these guys have been running the show for twenty years and the results speak for themselves. One result is the GARB response to the ABWE scandal. It’s sad but true: Christians continue to pay good money in the name of a gospel that will not sanctify, or save.
paul
A.B.W.E and the Missionary Kids Back in the News: A Call for Action
“Christ did not fulfill the justice of God in order to put an end to justice.”
I received some correspondence this morning concerning (if anybody still remembers it) the ABWE Missionary Kids sexual abuse scandal. Apparently, ABWE has hired another churchy “investigative” organization to replace G.RA.C.E. The whole ABWE thing is very emotional for me, so regardless of what I have going on right now, I am going to pen some initial thoughts before I further evaluate what I can do in light of the request that was received this morning. The email summoned up my frustration with this situation, so I need to get this off my chest before I move on with the day. It will be revisited later.
If there are any GARB pastors reading this right now (GARB is the primary financial supporter of ABWE), I just want you to know I think you are cowards and you make me sick. That’s an intentional generalization—get over it. As far as I know, not one GARB church has dropped its support of ABWE in response to this horrific scandal, and even if a few have, it’s not enough.
Likewise, if you are a GARB parishioner, you remind me of your European Christian descendants who quietly cleaned up the human ash from streets and rooftops during WWII. You have no conscience, and you are pathetic. That’s a generalization based on comparing the handling of the Penn State case versus what’s going with ABWE—get over it. And, I live in GARB country, so if any of you see me at the grocery store or the filling station, please feel free to discuss this with me, it would be my pleasure. Public writing is restrictive as far as expressing what I really think.
After almost seven years of researching spiritual abuse in the church, almost four years as full time thanks to Susan, I am confident that I know why this type of abuse goes on and why there is no justice for the victims. Generally, it speaks to our European religious roots. In that construct, salvation is in the institution.
Secondly, the institutional structure is based on spiritual caste; i.e., the enlightened minority leading the unenlightened masses.
Thirdly, the gospel propagated by the spiritual elite is collectivism. Come now, this isn’t complicated; to get justice for the MKs would hurt the institution that saves us. What’s better? Sweeping the scandal under the rug or “thousands upon thousands of people not hearing the gospel.” Please, please, please, people; how often do we hear that? Justice for the few would threaten “the group.” This is the very gist of a sermon Susan and I listened to last year in a GARB church. This is the selfsame ideology that has filled mass graves since the fall in the garden.
This was the very ideology of the founders of Protestantism. Luther and Calvin believed that salvation was found in the institutional church and nowhere else, period. The institutional church and its collectivist gospel is contra to Christ’s ideal of “the one in 99.” One life is not expendable for “the group.” The Jewish leadership condoned the execution of Christ based on collectivist ideology (John 18:14).
Peacemaker Ministries, G.R.A.C.E et al, and whoever ABWE just hired, are organizations that seek to protect the organization for the sake of “the group” and promote the necessary sacrifice of the few on the altar of “forgiving others in the same way Christ forgave us.” But my friends, Christ did not fulfill the justice of God in order to put an end to justice. This is why these victims are not able to “move on with their lives.” Be sure of this: G.R.A.C.E got fired because they were not able to convince the MKs to forgive and forget. They didn’t do their job.
So what should be done? I have much to say about this once I calm down, but for now, I want to remind people that the institutional church cannot live without OUR money. Why are we farming out our consciences and paying for it?
Moreover, since it is OUR money, why is it going for organizations like G.R.A.C.E rather than organizations that stand for the victims? It’s high time that ALL of these victims gather together and form such an organization, and it is high time that God’s people fund such organizations.
Tell me where to send the first donation.
paul
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
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