If You Go to Church You Are Guilty As Hell
One of my perspectives has changed again. It’s amazing how dialogue and writing turns on new light bulbs. Truly, for a born again Christian blogger Facebook supplies more material than one could ever write about. It’s the gift that just keeps giving.
Consider a few examples to begin my first point before I get to the Facebook exchange. CJ Mahaney is back and bigger than ever. Jim Bakker, yes, Jim Bakker is back and bigger than ever. GARB and Cedarville University are bigger than ever despite the ABWE missionary Kids scandal which by the way included not only child rape but kidnapping, and a 20-year coverup of such. The President of Cedarville University even stated publically that Christians still need salvation. John Piper states such continually. And, it’s business as usual; in fact, business is booming. After all, if salvation is a onetime personal affair, what would you need them for?
The reason is simple and something I saw in the institutional church for years before I left it: salvation can only be found in church membership and submission to its orthodoxy. This is also stated unequivocally in its founding doctrinal statements whether Protestant or Catholic.
Until today, I blamed those rascally church leaders for all of this and was forgiving of the poor misinformed, misled innocent sheep. No, the fact is, if you go to church, you are guilty as hell. You are supporting a lie, and there is no justice for the church’s victims because like the devils that gave birth to the church, churchians do not share God’s love for justice.
Full stop. No evil has ever been put down in the church by the church. Evil has always been stopped in the church by someone going outside of the church and seeking help from the secular authorities. Why? Because the infidels have more love for justice than the church. Not complicated. And what is “justice”? Justice defends life value. An “eye for an eye” is not about revenge, it’s about defending life. See it for yourself in the founding doctrinal statements of the church: life is evil and must be continually crucified. Church isn’t about a one-time death that brings forth a never ending Spring and fountain of life, it is about dwelling in death. That’s stated church orthodoxy. And moreover, dwelling in death is the stated gateway to joy. It’s a formal church doctrine known as Mortification and Vivification. It’s a stated orthodoxy of death. It’s about death…that’s church…period.
Hence, victims are relegated to the basement closets because what does one expect in a temple of death but death itself? What we have today is parishioners leaving one Protestant temple for lesser death in another Protestant temple where the same logic has not yet fully played itself out. Therefore, at least for the time being, one is in a “more loving church” where sinful elders sin less, but hark, we must remember that there is no perfect church and we are all just sinners saved by grace. Amen, but nevertheless, you support the system and you are guilty as hell—you are no less a “Good German” of Nazism fame.
Don’t blame it on Calvinism; don’t blame it on “Reformed theology.” Church is Reformed theology; church is Calvinism. Calvinism isn’t the problem; church is the problem. Predestination is not the core issue; the exact same soteriology is the issue. A different application of the same evil does not make the evil unevil.
So before I copy and paste the Facebook dialogue that led to this post, what’s the answer? That’s not complicated either. God’s people must start functioning like the family they are rather than an institution that dispenses ongoing salvation in return for a temple tax. The whole system must be rejected for the sake of God’s love. In other words, for the first time in your life, read the book of Acts with your own mind and simply let the words say what they say, not what some man with six bogus titles after his name says they say. Words mean things.
But if you do nothing else, stop supporting church. Stop being guilty as hell.
Paul, my freedom in Christ is a soul issue. Man has tried insisting on speaking for Him since the beginning. You make good valid points, but no one has the power to steal what He gives. And no rulers, church or state, will ever be on the truly right side where He is!
Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that no one is perfect so all bets are off?
Not sure what you are saying! I am His child Paul. I have a peace and joy that cannot be stolen. It is a simple statement.
24/7 uninterrupted peace and joy. Wow, that’s pretty impressive.
Paul, I honestly do not know where you are coming from. But I learned as a teenager that an awful lot of life is going to be out of my control. The foundation He gives is not. I sense a deep sarcasm in you and for that I am sad. I have no doubt you have been scalded by something. Me too. But one thing I do know— this kind of conversation is not productive. You are looking for discord and you are not going to get it from me. I simply know that at the end of any day, no matter how bad, God. Loves. me., and one day I am going home. And yes, I find great joy in that.
I will not comment on “where I am coming from” in this stream because my initial comments are gone. But I will comment on what I think bothers me about you overall. You are a typical parishioner who parrots institutional church talking points flavored with supposed humble godliness. Point in case: “no one has the power to steal what He gives.” Oh really? The church hasn’t stolen the innocence of many young children over the years? And yes, this is the exact rhetoric we hear from churchians when someone wants to hold the church accountable.
No, you don’t yell at them and attack them verbally which you have decried in your post, you feed them pious sounding institutional church talking points and tell them to “move on with life” and,…here it is,…don’t miss it…”no church is perfect” so in essence, yes, all bets are off. You represent mainline evangelicalism that has not held itself accountable for a litany of contemporary atrocities. When it is all said and done after ABWE, SGM, to name a meager few, it is business as usual. Yes, look around, totally business as usual.
And why is this? Well, the hypocrisy is endless. While claiming trust in JESUS ALONE the real trust is in the institutional church and that is exactly why the church always survives its scandals; the congregants are its supporters and enablers. They hide behind “bad churches and good churches,” “high controlling churches versus churches that aren’t like that,” and “no mere church can take away what Jesus has given,” and the ever-handy “cult” nomenclature while deep in their hearts they know it is the system that is the problem.
Hence, while giving tacit agreement to my original comment you sensed a slight offense against the institution that you trust for your salvation and lobbed the usual pious sounding talking points at me which by the way is sugar-coated condescension. But before I get to that, let me highlight the usual speaking for God and defining Him according to man’s tradition which always makes God the creator of evil. Since nobody can take away what Jesus has given, any parishioner who feels like the church has taken away something originally given by God; you know, like a marriage or virginity, only have themselves to blame for being unspiritual.
This is victim blaming and makes God appear as an advocate for evil to the unregenerate. Again, victim blaming in order to protect the church is a result of where the real trust for salvation is placed—the institutional church. And hark, it just so happens that church orthodoxy states that exactly in its founding doctrinal statements.
Now, while you decry those who personally attack people who expose selective evil, you are somehow pious because you didn’t call me names, but rather made statements about me that result in logical conclusions demanding numerous unflattering labels. This is typical and reveals the true arrogance of those sold out to the institutional church. Note that you were more knowledgeable about life than me by the time you were a teenager. Well, aren’t you special? Note that my pathetic mindset is so pathetic that it can’t even warrant anger but only pity. My mindset, therefore, makes you “sad.” Such a loving soul you are. And lastly, I have nothing to bring to the table in any discussion about life because my only motive is to “look(ing) for discord.”
And what about my “sarcasm”? Let me help you with that. It’s a survival mechanism for dealing with putrid hyper-hypocrisy that blames my Father for evil and in reality lifts up misfits like John Piper above God. And by the way, try reading your Bible for yourself and you will find that sarcasm was a communication tool used by Jesus and Paul often. There is something else I can mention as well though this could be a book; joy results in knowing that God loves you no matter how “bad” you are. Yep, that’s the Cross Chart.
That’s the good old-fashioned orthodoxy that you trust and will protect and enable at any cost because it’s what you truly trust for your salvation. In essence, the antithesis of love because it rejoices in evil. The depth of your badness results in joy because of God’s grace. In reality, that’s just a really bad idea.
Now, let me share the joy of having my own blog. You will certainly delete this dialogue as perhaps you did the other because it slighted the institutional church that you trust for your salvation, but this nevertheless will make a great post for the blog today.
Wow, just wow……for the life of me I can’t understand how in the world my friend deserves the attack you have just made on her. The reason she and I both friended you was because we saw your posts on Calvinism. She and I have both been hurt by the “reformed” and from different churches. We were really interested in your take on it. I had no idea the anger you hold toward those who don’t agree with you. For some reason, it seems you want to just argue. I see an unfollow in sight. I’m so sorry you feel the need to attack with your pride of intellect. Just so sad.
You just furthered my point entirely. Calvinism is church. Reformed is church. You can’t separate the two. Actually, I could make a good living defending the “church” against “Calvinism” and actually passed on an opportunity to do so. Calvinism isn’t the problem, church is the problem. Christ’s body is a family and not an authoritative institution. When I first published “The Truth About New Calvinism” I was quickly becoming the darling of the anti-Reformed crowd until I realized that the anti-Reformed crowd is Reformed. And, my willingness to proclaim the truth with a few encouragers results in the following label: “angry.” Yes, I am an “angry man.” LOL! I wear that as a badge of honor.
And by the way, does this make me the same kind of angry guy that she praises in her initial post? Uh, I lost my wife too because of a church but no other church would come to my defense. Sooooo, please help me be the good kind of angry that you think so much of.
..and no other church came to my defense nor the guy she praises; why? Because where would people get their salvation if the institution was held accountable? That’s why. You can’t have it both ways.
End relevant dialogue.
So there you have it folks; it is alright to be angry against “bad” churches, but not the system itself though predicated on false justification with a perpetual death application that supposedly brings joy. You may think I was somewhat harsh with these ladies, but this is not an issue that will come to light by tiptoeing around; anything but directness in regard to this subject will be taken and heard the way one prefers to hear it. Unfortunately, in regard to this particular subject rooted deep in tradition, you know that you have made your point if people are offended. And…
…it also reveals what they really hold dear in the face of truth, an institution.