If You Go to Church You Are Guilty As Hell
One of my perspectives has changed again. It’s amazing how dialogue and writing turns on new light bulbs. Truly, for a born again Christian blogger Facebook supplies more material than one could ever write about. It’s the gift that just keeps giving.
Consider a few examples to begin my first point before I get to the Facebook exchange. CJ Mahaney is back and bigger than ever. Jim Bakker, yes, Jim Bakker is back and bigger than ever. GARB and Cedarville University are bigger than ever despite the ABWE missionary Kids scandal which by the way included not only child rape but kidnapping, and a 20-year coverup of such. The President of Cedarville University even stated publically that Christians still need salvation. John Piper states such continually. And, it’s business as usual; in fact, business is booming. After all, if salvation is a onetime personal affair, what would you need them for?
The reason is simple and something I saw in the institutional church for years before I left it: salvation can only be found in church membership and submission to its orthodoxy. This is also stated unequivocally in its founding doctrinal statements whether Protestant or Catholic.
Until today, I blamed those rascally church leaders for all of this and was forgiving of the poor misinformed, misled innocent sheep. No, the fact is, if you go to church, you are guilty as hell. You are supporting a lie, and there is no justice for the church’s victims because like the devils that gave birth to the church, churchians do not share God’s love for justice.
Full stop. No evil has ever been put down in the church by the church. Evil has always been stopped in the church by someone going outside of the church and seeking help from the secular authorities. Why? Because the infidels have more love for justice than the church. Not complicated. And what is “justice”? Justice defends life value. An “eye for an eye” is not about revenge, it’s about defending life. See it for yourself in the founding doctrinal statements of the church: life is evil and must be continually crucified. Church isn’t about a one-time death that brings forth a never ending Spring and fountain of life, it is about dwelling in death. That’s stated church orthodoxy. And moreover, dwelling in death is the stated gateway to joy. It’s a formal church doctrine known as Mortification and Vivification. It’s a stated orthodoxy of death. It’s about death…that’s church…period.
Hence, victims are relegated to the basement closets because what does one expect in a temple of death but death itself? What we have today is parishioners leaving one Protestant temple for lesser death in another Protestant temple where the same logic has not yet fully played itself out. Therefore, at least for the time being, one is in a “more loving church” where sinful elders sin less, but hark, we must remember that there is no perfect church and we are all just sinners saved by grace. Amen, but nevertheless, you support the system and you are guilty as hell—you are no less a “Good German” of Nazism fame.
Don’t blame it on Calvinism; don’t blame it on “Reformed theology.” Church is Reformed theology; church is Calvinism. Calvinism isn’t the problem; church is the problem. Predestination is not the core issue; the exact same soteriology is the issue. A different application of the same evil does not make the evil unevil.
So before I copy and paste the Facebook dialogue that led to this post, what’s the answer? That’s not complicated either. God’s people must start functioning like the family they are rather than an institution that dispenses ongoing salvation in return for a temple tax. The whole system must be rejected for the sake of God’s love. In other words, for the first time in your life, read the book of Acts with your own mind and simply let the words say what they say, not what some man with six bogus titles after his name says they say. Words mean things.
But if you do nothing else, stop supporting church. Stop being guilty as hell.
Begin dialogue.
Paul, my freedom in Christ is a soul issue. Man has tried insisting on speaking for Him since the beginning. You make good valid points, but no one has the power to steal what He gives. And no rulers, church or state, will ever be on the truly right side where He is!
Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that no one is perfect so all bets are off?
Not sure what you are saying! I am His child Paul. I have a peace and joy that cannot be stolen. It is a simple statement.
24/7 uninterrupted peace and joy. Wow, that’s pretty impressive.
Paul, I honestly do not know where you are coming from. But I learned as a teenager that an awful lot of life is going to be out of my control. The foundation He gives is not. I sense a deep sarcasm in you and for that I am sad. I have no doubt you have been scalded by something. Me too. But one thing I do know— this kind of conversation is not productive. You are looking for discord and you are not going to get it from me. I simply know that at the end of any day, no matter how bad, God. Loves. me., and one day I am going home. And yes, I find great joy in that.
I will not comment on “where I am coming from” in this stream because my initial comments are gone. But I will comment on what I think bothers me about you overall. You are a typical parishioner who parrots institutional church talking points flavored with supposed humble godliness. Point in case: “no one has the power to steal what He gives.” Oh really? The church hasn’t stolen the innocence of many young children over the years? And yes, this is the exact rhetoric we hear from churchians when someone wants to hold the church accountable.
No, you don’t yell at them and attack them verbally which you have decried in your post, you feed them pious sounding institutional church talking points and tell them to “move on with life” and,…here it is,…don’t miss it…”no church is perfect” so in essence, yes, all bets are off. You represent mainline evangelicalism that has not held itself accountable for a litany of contemporary atrocities. When it is all said and done after ABWE, SGM, to name a meager few, it is business as usual. Yes, look around, totally business as usual.
And why is this? Well, the hypocrisy is endless. While claiming trust in JESUS ALONE the real trust is in the institutional church and that is exactly why the church always survives its scandals; the congregants are its supporters and enablers. They hide behind “bad churches and good churches,” “high controlling churches versus churches that aren’t like that,” and “no mere church can take away what Jesus has given,” and the ever-handy “cult” nomenclature while deep in their hearts they know it is the system that is the problem.
Hence, while giving tacit agreement to my original comment you sensed a slight offense against the institution that you trust for your salvation and lobbed the usual pious sounding talking points at me which by the way is sugar-coated condescension. But before I get to that, let me highlight the usual speaking for God and defining Him according to man’s tradition which always makes God the creator of evil. Since nobody can take away what Jesus has given, any parishioner who feels like the church has taken away something originally given by God; you know, like a marriage or virginity, only have themselves to blame for being unspiritual.
This is victim blaming and makes God appear as an advocate for evil to the unregenerate. Again, victim blaming in order to protect the church is a result of where the real trust for salvation is placed—the institutional church. And hark, it just so happens that church orthodoxy states that exactly in its founding doctrinal statements.
Now, while you decry those who personally attack people who expose selective evil, you are somehow pious because you didn’t call me names, but rather made statements about me that result in logical conclusions demanding numerous unflattering labels. This is typical and reveals the true arrogance of those sold out to the institutional church. Note that you were more knowledgeable about life than me by the time you were a teenager. Well, aren’t you special? Note that my pathetic mindset is so pathetic that it can’t even warrant anger but only pity. My mindset, therefore, makes you “sad.” Such a loving soul you are. And lastly, I have nothing to bring to the table in any discussion about life because my only motive is to “look(ing) for discord.”
And what about my “sarcasm”? Let me help you with that. It’s a survival mechanism for dealing with putrid hyper-hypocrisy that blames my Father for evil and in reality lifts up misfits like John Piper above God. And by the way, try reading your Bible for yourself and you will find that sarcasm was a communication tool used by Jesus and Paul often. There is something else I can mention as well though this could be a book; joy results in knowing that God loves you no matter how “bad” you are. Yep, that’s the Cross Chart.
That’s the good old-fashioned orthodoxy that you trust and will protect and enable at any cost because it’s what you truly trust for your salvation. In essence, the antithesis of love because it rejoices in evil. The depth of your badness results in joy because of God’s grace. In reality, that’s just a really bad idea.
Now, let me share the joy of having my own blog. You will certainly delete this dialogue as perhaps you did the other because it slighted the institutional church that you trust for your salvation, but this nevertheless will make a great post for the blog today.
Wow, just wow……for the life of me I can’t understand how in the world my friend deserves the attack you have just made on her. The reason she and I both friended you was because we saw your posts on Calvinism. She and I have both been hurt by the “reformed” and from different churches. We were really interested in your take on it. I had no idea the anger you hold toward those who don’t agree with you. For some reason, it seems you want to just argue. I see an unfollow in sight. I’m so sorry you feel the need to attack with your pride of intellect. Just so sad.
You just furthered my point entirely. Calvinism is church. Reformed is church. You can’t separate the two. Actually, I could make a good living defending the “church” against “Calvinism” and actually passed on an opportunity to do so. Calvinism isn’t the problem, church is the problem. Christ’s body is a family and not an authoritative institution. When I first published “The Truth About New Calvinism” I was quickly becoming the darling of the anti-Reformed crowd until I realized that the anti-Reformed crowd is Reformed. And, my willingness to proclaim the truth with a few encouragers results in the following label: “angry.” Yes, I am an “angry man.” LOL! I wear that as a badge of honor.
And by the way, does this make me the same kind of angry guy that she praises in her initial post? Uh, I lost my wife too because of a church but no other church would come to my defense. Sooooo, please help me be the good kind of angry that you think so much of.
..and no other church came to my defense nor the guy she praises; why? Because where would people get their salvation if the institution was held accountable? That’s why. You can’t have it both ways.
End relevant dialogue.
So there you have it folks; it is alright to be angry against “bad” churches, but not the system itself though predicated on false justification with a perpetual death application that supposedly brings joy. You may think I was somewhat harsh with these ladies, but this is not an issue that will come to light by tiptoeing around; anything but directness in regard to this subject will be taken and heard the way one prefers to hear it. Unfortunately, in regard to this particular subject rooted deep in tradition, you know that you have made your point if people are offended. And…
…it also reveals what they really hold dear in the face of truth, an institution.
paul
The Crux: Husbands Must Reassume Their leadership Role Apart From Any Institution; Especially The Church
For some time Susan and I have been counseling in several marriage situations that seem hopeless. We want to be involved in these situations to help as much as we can while trying to learn how these marriages can be healed. And after many months of struggling with these situations, I believe the lightbulb has finally come on.
I have come to believe that good marriages are a product of functioning within God’s design for things. It is interesting to note what the definition of mental health is: the ability to cope with life. Period. This is why family is so important: families are organized units that help people cope with life. When a family is functioning like it should, it is a mighty stalwart as set against life. Love, resolve, peace, happiness, security, help, encouragement, wisdom, experience, and perseverance is found in the milieu of life through the family unit.
Life goes much better when things are used according to their purposes; no skilled surgeon uses a Bowie knife for anything regarding a patient, he uses special surgical tools.
In focusing on what Susan and I do know in all of this, we have emphasized marrying right to begin with. In regard to the woman, that means marrying a leader.
Let me now just pull the whole elephant out of the barn for you to see instead of feeding him to you a piece at a time like a Protestant hack. A good marriage requires the husband to be a leader; a bad marriage can be made good by the husband becoming a leader. A wife may think her husband is cute, handsome, funny, and sexy, and she may even love him, but if he isn’t a leader, she will not respect him and the marriage will eventually go south.
Now it is necessary to define what a leader is. A leader is an independent thinker. A husband leader is a thoughtful person who can think for himself. A leader is not indifferent to how the world works. The world demands this of him whether he knows it or not. There is no choice in the matter. Would you like an example?
So you are just a beer drinking, take it as it comes, live and let live, football-watching Joe, right? You work hard; bring home a check every week, and watching football on the weekend is your rest and escape from weekly duty, right? But as always, hardcore reality catches up with the way we like things; ideology, politics if you will, is now part of football. As a leader, if you are one, you will finally recognize the fact that the world will not allow you to hide from ideology. You can enter the arena of ideas now, or you can eventually be run over by the chariots—your call. You can fancy yourself as a good-old-boy that just goes with the flow all you want, but the flow will eventually drown you. The mindless always end up on a deathbed padded with a mattress of regret…always.
This is a world driven by ideology. If you are a lazy thinker who fancies himself as being along for the ride of life—life will eventually throw you off the bus and run you over. Then you will run to a professional thinker who you must trust because you have no foundational thinking of your own in which to gauge what you are being told.
I would be tempted right now to think of a movie I once saw. A young thoughtless man followed his adventurous desires and rode with some outlaws. He and those he was riding with were shot by some not-so-politically-correct lawmen who rode up on the suffering boy lying on the ground, fatally wounded. One lawman looked upon the youngster, and seeing the fear in his eyes said, “Take your medicine boy.” If you are a lazy thinker, you will indeed take your medicine someday. Lazy thinkers let others think for them and end up wherever the thinkers want them to be. This is why people who need counseling hardly ever know how they ended up where they are at. And I would be tempted to gloat over the aforementioned movie motif, but as a recovering Protestant I am also guilty of letting others think for me.
Secondly, a leader is not a boss. Secondly, a leader is not a boss. Secondly, a leader is not a boss. As a husband, you have no authority. Leadership and authority are mutually exclusive. You think you have authority because you are a lazy thinker and others told you to think that. If you do have authority, you don’t need to be a leader; your wife merely does what you tell her to do for any or no reason whatsoever. Note that authority produces lazy thinking; you don’t need a good reason to demand anything in particular, it just suits your desires at the time.
Leadership and authority are mutually exclusive. And lazy thinkers will either be guided by desire or thinking. Desire always fills the void where thinking is absent.
“But, but, but, if no one is in charge, chaos will ensue!” See what I mean? Where did you get that idea thou lazy thinker? You were taught that by people who want to control you. A cursory independent research will prove that wrong.
Note: this is a discussion separate from the necessity of civil law and the proper administration of it according to God’s purposes.
Thirdly, your authority is your own conscience. Your conscience is who you are, and it is your duty to study life, and thereby inform your conscience according to truth resulting in an earned, truthful self-esteem. Before this statement makes you run to the little boy’s room, know this: somebody is going to inform your conscience which will dictate your behavior; that will be you, or others. Pick one; you have no third choice.
Fourthly, your wife has a right to her own conscience. Your wife should also be a thinker, but as a husband who leads, you are an overseer that makes sure healthy thinking is in process. You are joint-heirs of life, you are part of a family role that faces life TOGETHER, and as ONE flesh.
Be a leader who thinks and applies wisdom to your life, and your wife will respect you. If you have farmed out thinking to other authorities and have set that example for your wife, she will only respect you to the degree that you obey those authorities.
Take your medicine boy.
Listen, Susan and I hear this constantly from church wives: “I don’t respect him because he doesn’t respect the elders.” And this is regardless of anything the elders do. Why? Because they are in authority which requires no reason to do anything other than what they want to do. Worse yet, the husband’s usual objection is that they have usurped his supposed authority. Good luck with that because they are the supposed experts. Don’t play the authority game—you will lose that card game every time if you call their hand. Indeed, if you want to play the authority game, by all means, keep your mouth shut and put your temple tax in the plate. You will at least have a peaceful marriage. It’s a lie, but at least it will be peaceful.
And, the fact that the wife respects/obeys authority over reason is indicative of the husband’s abject failure as a leader. You farmed out the thinking to experts, now they have the marriage they want you to have whatever that might be. By the way, this also applies to the children; somebody is going to seek to lead them someplace by some kind of ideology. This is simply how the world works. As the leader you can be on top of that or asleep at the switch. If you are asleep at the switch, you might get lucky, or you might find your child in their bedroom closet dead because they misused the affixation thrill seeking technique.
In these seemingly hopeless church marriages, the hope lies in the husband assuming his role as a leader before God. This may include the defunding of the wife’s ability to follow others as pseudo authoritarians who demand the husband’s capitulation. You don’t pay for things you don’t believe in. That’s not grace and mercy; that’s stupidity.
Thriving marriages require husband leaders who know their wives and love them according to knowledge and wisdom resulting in wives that respect their husbands. The wife should contribute to figuring out life; it’s the husband’s role to make sure the figuring out is ongoing. I guess if there is one area where I have succeeded as a husband, as Susan will tell you, I constantly encourage her to think for herself according to her own pursuit of truth. A leader strives to make sure his wife and children take personal ownership of what they believe and that being a work built with their own labor.
It’s truth that sets us free.
This starts with knowledge deliberately neglected via Protestant orthodoxy which is based on authority and not leadership. It’s a knowledge that knows how the world works. Jesus calls for individuals to SEEK, not a blind following after the traditions of men cloaked in authority.
The way to heal these marriages is for the husband to become a properly defined leader; more than likely, the wife will like what she sees and follow. His life now makes more sense and works better. This also applies to husbands in general, but even more so with Christian husbands.
paul
Yet Another “Church” Meme
For your consideration:
So what do we learn from this?
- Church is defined as a place where “messed-up” people go.
- Church is defined as a “place” and not a “body”.
- Believers are still “messed-up” and not personally righteous.
- People in church are “seeking God”, implying that they haven’t yet “found” Him.
- “Religious” people are God’s “enforcers”, which is ironic since the institutional church is predicated on authority vested in the pastor/elders.
“Church” is either a place full of messed-up, unregenerate sinners still seeking God
-OR-
It is a spiritual body made up of God’s own personally righteous offspring who have been reconciled to Him and are striving to love Him and others.
You cannot have it both ways!
Andy
The Church Meme
The meme displayed in this post, and also the subject of this post is just one more piece of evidence pointing to the false religion of church. Church banks on lazy thinkers; however, if one gives this meme but a little thought, it speaks to the horrid reality of church and its history.
The most overt message of this meme follows: “You are obligated to be faithful to church no matter what happens there, and if you leave church for whatever reason, you never knew God. So, in order to prove that you have faith in God, you remain faithful to church. Part of persevering in the faith is being faithful to church no matter what. After all, church involves people, and where you have people—you have sin.”
Therefore, if something really, really bad happens that the leadership will not deal with; one does not dare question the premise of church, but rather finds another salvation franchise where they can continue to get salvation on the installment plan. Plainly, in the black and white pages of orthodoxy, the church has always proclaimed itself as God’s salvific authority on earth. Martin Luther and John Calvin were not the least bit ambiguous about it. Calvin clearly stated that water baptism made a person an official member of church, and continued forgiveness for present sin is only available through church membership.
4.15.1 – Baptism is the initiatory sign by which we are admitted to the fellowship of the Church, that being ingrafted into Christ we may be accounted children of God. Moreover, the end for which God has given it (this I have shown to be common to all mysteries) is, first, that it may be conducive to our faith in him; and, secondly, that it may serve the purpose of a confession among men. The nature of both institutions we shall explain in order. Baptism contributes to our faith three things, which require to be treated separately. The first object, therefore, for which it is appointed by the Lord, is to be a sign and evidence of our purification, or (better to explain my meaning) it is a kind of sealed instrument by which he assures us that all our sins are so deleted, covered, and effaced, that they will never come into his sight, never be mentioned, never imputed. For it is his will that all who have believed, be baptised for the remission of sins. Hence those who have thought that baptism is nothing else than the badge and mark by which we profess our religion before men, in the same way as soldiers attest their profession by bearing the insignia of their commander, having not attended to what was the principal thing in baptism; and this is, that we are to receive it in connection with the promise, “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved” (Calvin Institutes).
4.15.3 – Nor is it to be supposed that baptism is bestowed only with reference to the past, so that, in regard to new lapses into which we fall after baptism, we must seek new remedies of expiation in other so-called sacraments, just as if the power of baptism had become obsolete. To this error, in ancient times, it was owing that some refused to be initiated by baptism until their life was in extreme danger, and they were drawing their last breath, that they might thus obtain pardon for all the past. Against this preposterous precaution ancient bishops frequently inveigh in their writings. We ought to consider that at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified once for the whole of life. Wherefore, as often as we fall, we must recall the remembrance of our baptism, and thus fortify our minds, so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins. For though, when once administered, it seems to have passed, it is not abolished by subsequent sins. For the purity of Christ was therein offered to us, always is in force, and is not destroyed by any stain: it wipes and washes away all our defilements. Nor must we hence assume a license of sinning for the future (there is certainly nothing in it to countenance such audacity), but this doctrine is intended only for those who, when they have sinned, groan under their sins burdened and oppressed, that they may have wherewith to support and console themselves, and not rush headlong into despair. Thus Paul says that Christ was made a propitiation for us for the remission of sins that are past (Rom. 3:25). By this he denies not that constant and perpetual forgiveness of sins is thereby obtained even till death: he only intimates that it is designed by the Father for those poor sinners who, wounded by remorse of conscience, sigh for the physician. To these the mercy of God is offered. Those who, from hopes of impunity, seek a license for sin, only provoke the wrath and justice of God (Calvin Institutes).
Hence, you may not like what is going on in church, but according to Protestant orthodoxy, it is the only place that you can get continued forgiveness; ie., salvation. Many churches will vehemently deny this, but watch how they function; they strongly emphasize getting people saved and repentance while putting little emphasis on practical Christian living lest we have a “righteousness of our own.” Rather than love/obedience, we must instead, “revisit our baptism.”
But, if you are in a church that totally looks the other way in regard to scandalous sin, or isn’t relevant to real life, you may find a “good church.” Or can you? Such people are often labeled “church hoppers” or brought up on church discipline and declared unregenerate. And besides, “no church is perfect anyway,” right?
Secondly, note the grammar shell game always invoked by the Protestant liars. This meme, in true Protestant tradition, subtly denies the new birth. Notice that church is only God’s actual family when it serves their purpose, but when referring to reprehensible behavior, church is made up of mere…”people.” Otherwise, if true biblical grammar was actually utilized, it would read: “If being hurt by God’s family causes you to lose faith in God; then your faith was based on being in God’s family and having expectations accordingly.” Ya think?
Thirdly, the meme subtly endorses Protestantism’s Gnostic roots. This goes along with the denial of the new birth and a literal family of God state of being. There is a strict dichotomy between a godly spiritual realm and “people” who are of the material realm. The “Christian” is called on to accept church as the only conduit between the material and the spiritual while expecting any and every kind of evil to take place in the church accordingly.
Fourthly, and lastly, the reality of new birth is rejected while making the so-called authority of church foundational to true faith.
In contrast, wherever born again believers are, the body of Christ is manifested. Whether gathering together for fellowship or serving, the assembly of Christ’s body is present. “People” are not the church, and besides, there is NO “church” to begin with. There is only the manifestation of God’s family members edifying each other and serving with their individual gifts.
paul
The Secular “Sunday Assembly” Movement Makes Perfect Sense
There is a growing movement worldwide called “Sunday Assembly.” If you go to the movement’s website, sundayassembly.com, you discover the following:
“The Sunday Assembly was started by Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans, two comedians who were on the way to a gig in Bath when they discovered they both wanted to do something that was like church but totally secular and inclusive of all—no matter what they believed. The first ever Sunday Assembly meeting took place on January 6th 2013 at The Nave in Islington. Almost 200 people turned up at the first meeting, 300 at the second and soon people all over the world asked to start one. Now there are 68 Sunday Assembly chapters in 8 different countries where people sing songs, hear inspiring talks, and create community together. Why do we exist? Life is short, it is brilliant, it is sometimes tough, we build communities that help everyone live life as fully as possible.”
The movement, sometimes reported as “atheist church,” is growing fast enough to get the attention of many major media outlets such as NPR. The public charter follows:
The Sunday Assembly is a godless congregation that celebrates life. Our motto: live better, help often, wonder more. Our mission: to help everyone find and fulfill their full potential. Our vision: a godless congregation in every town, city and village that wants one…
- Is 100% celebration of life. We are born from nothing and go to nothing. Let’s enjoy it together.
- Has no doctrine. We have no set texts so we can make use of wisdom from all sources.
- Has no deity. We don’t do supernatural but we also won’t tell you you’re wrong if you do.
- Is radically inclusive. Everyone is welcome, regardless of their beliefs – this is a place of love that is open and accepting.
- Is free to attend, not-for-profit and volunteer run. We ask for donations to cover our costs and support our community work.
- Has a community mission. Through our Action Heroes (you!), we will be a force for good.
- Is independent. We do not accept sponsorship or promote outside businesses, organisations or services
- Is here to stay. With your involvement, The Sunday Assembly will make the world a better place
- We won’t won’t tell you how to live, but will try to help you do it as well as you can
- And remember point 1… The Sunday Assembly is a celebration of the one life we know we have.
This kind of group makes perfect sense because the church has completely hijacked the Bible and used it for a doctrine of spiritual caste. Because of the way church defines individualism, bad fruit will incite people to leave church in search of something else that will give them hope. Obviously, this movement is about individual journey and feeling good about life in the process. In contrast, the church is all about the inability of man, and complete submission to church authority for purposes of obtaining eternal life. Reported responses by clergy are most telling:
“I can see why people would agree with what they are hearing because a lot of us are lonely and seeking something larger,” said Wittmer, a professor of systematic theology at the Grand Rapids Theological Seminary at Cornerstone University. “The question is what do they believe in? They might be catching the wave of a culture, but what does it mean in the end? To me, they’re leaving out the most important part.”
In church, that means letting the “biblical scholars” tell you what to believe. And if it just doesn’t add up in your mind, well, check your conscience at the door because you are totally depraved and must not “lean on your own understanding.” Humanity was willing to go with that for about 1700 years, but the church hasn’t delivered anything from that idea other than more death and misery. In the same article, Wittmer reveals one aspect of the problem:
Wittmer maintains the absence of a religious faith and a commitment to autonomy presents problems. He wonders how the group will settle conflicts should they develop, issues traditional congregations solve by looking to clergy and religious texts.
Get the picture? An organized group of people utilizing leadership without authority in a spiritual caste system will lead to chaos. This is due to the church’s presuppositions concerning mankind. The church has effectively hijacked the Bible and rewritten it according to Plato’s, The Republic. This movement, and church, represent two extremes. The only problem is this: the church has defined the Bible as such in the minds of most.
The truth follows: The Bible looks more like Sunday Assembly in regard to individualism and presuppositions regarding humankind. God has never imposed His truth on anyone. He offers life, and freewill to choose. He offers life more abundantly in the here and now, and eternal life in the end. Death, and death more abundantly in the here and now, and ultimately eternal death, is a choice people make on their own accord.
A lot could be said here about the fact that real Christian life is found somewhere in the middle between church and Sunday Assembly, but I will end with this: The latter has the correct presuppositions in regard to humankind and life-value, but is missing the boat in regard to a definitive truth. This is key: the definitive truth is there, but the individual alone is culpable before God and must be persuaded in his or her own mind.
That’s what a true believing community does; it is a cooperative organized venture to obtain one mind of truth as each is persuaded.
paul
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
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