Paul's Passing Thoughts

Unchurching: Food for Thought

Posted in Uncategorized by Paul M. Dohse Sr. on January 30, 2018

14 Responses

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  1. Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on January 30, 2018 at 8:51 AM

    It is refreshing to hear others saying all the same things we have been saying about the institutional church for years!

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  2. John said, on January 30, 2018 at 9:09 AM

    The smile-while-I-lie devil MacArthur got a little fright there in the second video; oh, but the bodyguards took the little guy out of the brainwashing building quickly. Ugh, and just to see Paul Washer’s face, he of Lordship salvation and fake gospel too, gave me indigestion

    Interesting direction altogether, but they need to work on the meanings of “church” and “kingdom” (especially the first video).

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  3. Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on January 30, 2018 at 10:10 AM

    The guy from the last video is on the right track, but he still needs to get his theology in order (church is “the bride” e.g.). You cannot separate the two. The institutional church model is the result of bad theology; one that teaches justification by law instead of New Birth. The desire for authority as a means to wield control over others necessitates an institutional model, and unless that is dealt with the problem of authority is only going to perpetuate in a “home” model. This emphasis is what seems to be missing from all three of these videos.

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  4. Republican mother said, on January 30, 2018 at 10:19 AM

    Very cool that I’ve already seen both these videos. I really wanted to check out the unconference, but I was wary. The forward to Richard’s book on unchurching is by Jon Zens, who, when I cross-referenced him on this site, was a crucial figure in the early days of the NeoCal movement.

    I’ve heard Richard say things like you have to give all, and not so much on the crucial New Birth.

    But I do agree with the fact that God might be the ultimate unschooling facilitator. We have so much freedom and imagination in how we can live in our faith, as opposed to the 3 songs & a TedTalk in a greco-roman forum adorned with a pagan steeple.

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  5. Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on January 30, 2018 at 12:17 PM

    Yep, Zens…a major subject of our ministry back in the day and the father of New Covenant Theology. Might have to post some stuff here shortly.

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    • John said, on January 30, 2018 at 12:28 PM

      Yes, Zens is not an example to follow at all. Even in leaving churches, people have hidden agendas. People from PPT have a biblical view and motivation to do so, which is great, while others I’m not so sure of. Maybe they’re simply unhappy with someone in there or want to run the show themselves.

      But at this stage, I’d welcome anything (within civilized parameters) to help destroy Calvinism and the institutionalized “church,” as those things are not from God.

      But in all these videos, the narrators are missing the New Birth…hence my reservations. No born-again truth, no new life. Simple.

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      • republican mother said, on January 30, 2018 at 2:41 PM

        Well Richard Jacobson has a unchurching group in my neck of the woods, but I haven’t gotten involved because of the reasons you all are pointing out. I decided to look up his book, found Jon Zens, found the PPT post about that guy and the “Danger Will Robinson” flags came up.

        They have a podcast where they tell the tale how this one group decided to pay off each other’s debts. I can see how that could get weird real quick. Being under a spirit of condemnation doesn’t have to occur in an institutional setting. Can you imagine the nightmare of reformed theology that expects to come over to your house for a sin-searching-introspection fest?

        Like Foghorn Leghorn says, there’s something kind of “eeehhh” about a “Christian” who doesn’t talk about the New Birth.

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      • Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on January 30, 2018 at 3:11 PM

        Mr. Jacobson on the one hand talks about the un-biblical-ness of the system of the IC and its profiteering but on the other hand has an entire web page dedicated to the marketing of his own materials. And why is his Facebook group a “closed” group? Something smells fishy.

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  6. Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on January 30, 2018 at 12:20 PM

    Certainly, the guy has some worthy ideas about how to articulate the issue, but his theology a little bit scary.

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  7. Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on January 30, 2018 at 3:22 PM

    My focus is kinda on the response they are getting which is huge. In other words, somebody is hitting on the key ideas and people are listening.

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    • Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on January 31, 2018 at 9:07 AM

      It seems their focus is the money and “big business” angle which seems to resonate with people. It’s something tangible they can see and comprehend. We all know how folks seems to shy away from theological discussions. Since the church has successfully dumbed down the laity, people naturally feel unqualified to understand it.

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  8. Ken B said, on January 30, 2018 at 7:23 PM

    The Art of Zens Calvinism … Couldn’t resist!

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  9. Susan said, on February 4, 2018 at 9:55 AM

    I like it Ken — The Art of Zens Calvinism. It could be a book title. In many ways, the video pastor and animator hits it on the mark. However, if one gets things 50% correct and 50% wrong, what does that math equal. +50 -50 = 0 if I remember anything from my schooling days. What a vast majority of the churches have fallen into is “it doesn’t matter what you believe.” The Protestants have created a modern-day religious Tower of Babel. And we know how that ended in the Book of Genesis. We are now watching the people scatter. There are “nones” and there are “dones”. I am a “done.” Welcome to the Great Apostasy.

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