lydiasellerofpurple said, on February 14, 2014 at 11:48 PM
” have a dear friend here who is very Christ like. I have learned a great deal from him. He is not a gifted teacher and has a great deal to learn about biblical truth. That he may very well be a better Christian than I does not mean he is ready to be placed into a teaching role.”
First of all, I do not understand the word “role” in this context. A “role” is playing a part. A pretend game. Secondly, living out good fruit is “teaching”. We do it for our children all the time. They learn more from that than any “explaining”. In fact, the more we talk, the less they listen. :o)
lydiasellerofpurple said, on February 14, 2014 at 11:52 PM
“It is not a problem caused by Calvinism. It is a problem caused by the sinful human condition”
Perfect! Thanks Randy. Let me see, believers lord it over in their pastor function because of their “sinful human condition” that not even the Cross/Resurrection was enough for a “new creature in Christ”. Our choices are sinless perfection or a “human condition of perpetual sin”?
GRR said, “Lydia, I have a dear friend here who is very Christ like. I have learned a great deal from him. He is not a gifted teacher and has a great deal to learn about biblical truth. That he may very well be a better Christian than I does not mean he is ready to be placed into a teaching role.”
GRR, I knew you believed this before you wrote it. Not because I have pre-deterministic powers, but because of the set of beliefs you hold. Your participation in this conversation is wonderful & gives us much to think about.
The logical fallacy you present is the notion one can only learn in a sterile, note taking, lecturing, “I will tell you what to think” environment. Learning from one who is authority to another under the authority. That is the big mistake in your belief system. Learning is wooden, prevents critical thinking, and one only knows what they’ve been told. You can’t be making a bigger mistake than that when it comes to learning, IMO.
If Jesus prized this type of learning, he would have gone straight to the synagogues & taught exactly the way you tell us it should happen. So, what did Jesus do?
Instead, Jesus grabbed the kind of people Lydia was talking about: fishermen & the like (today’s plumbers & the like). Then Jesus lived among them, loved them & taught them through example, parable, discussion, etc. Sorry to break the news to you Randy, but they were well equipped. And they loved Jesus. They were the ones God depended on to spread the good news. And they did it in a powerful, capable way.
I am a homeschool Mom. Funny, learning works much better the way Jesus (God) did it. Funny, it produces wise, highly capable, discerning thinkers naturally. And it makes me smarter along the way. We are to teach as we go about life, by default by example as well, the Bible says. It’s no wonder your “teaching authorities” produces adults who are still children, who still need their parent or pastor or elder or authority to think for them.
Randy, it’s interesting to me that you say your friend is very Christ like (maybe more than you, you said) but he is not capable of teaching, according to you. You say he is very Christ-like but doesn’t know much about biblical truth. Your emphasis is on biblical truth, but not Christ-likeness (You set up a false dichotomy: one can be Christ-like but not biblical). I think you’ve made our point for us. You deny much, but your own explanations tell us what you believe quite clearly. John Calvin emphasized “biblical truth” & rejected Christ-likeness. And what you said is a great example of theology trumps Christ.
GRR, You really think it’s possible to follow Christ & not know biblical truth or vice versa? That, folks, is exactly how John Calvin operated in Geneva. Calvin thought he was the authority on biblical truth… even though his murderous actions weren’t Christ-like. Hide the kids & wallets from those who are authorities on biblical truth who aren’t Christ-like, IMO. I don’t care what they say they know or how much they know or what title or “authority” they have. I hope you would agree with this, GRR.
As for those who are Christ-like but have never seen a Bible… we would be wise & do well to watch & learn from them!
GRR, Put aside whatever you want to call what you believe, for a moment. It looks like you believe teaching belongs to an authority in a spiritual hierarchy. And it is the only right way to teach Jesus.
I believe you misquoted me again. I did not say my friend could not teach me anything. He teaches me a great deal about being content in spite of his physical maladies and material poverty. I believe every Christian has something to teach in that sense. What I said is that he is not yet equipped to teach theology. Not everyone is a gifted teacher. Their gifts lie in other areas. I believe in a peripatetic ministry, but someone in Jesus’ ministry was the teacher and others were students. This is why they were called “disciples.”
“GRR, You really think it’s possible to follow Christ & not know biblical truth or vice versa?”
I think it is impossible to follow Christ without knowing biblical truth, but I believe it is possible to know biblical truth without following Christ.
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
” have a dear friend here who is very Christ like. I have learned a great deal from him. He is not a gifted teacher and has a great deal to learn about biblical truth. That he may very well be a better Christian than I does not mean he is ready to be placed into a teaching role.”
First of all, I do not understand the word “role” in this context. A “role” is playing a part. A pretend game. Secondly, living out good fruit is “teaching”. We do it for our children all the time. They learn more from that than any “explaining”. In fact, the more we talk, the less they listen. :o)
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“It is not a problem caused by Calvinism. It is a problem caused by the sinful human condition”
Perfect! Thanks Randy. Let me see, believers lord it over in their pastor function because of their “sinful human condition” that not even the Cross/Resurrection was enough for a “new creature in Christ”. Our choices are sinless perfection or a “human condition of perpetual sin”?
THAT is Calvinism in a nutshell.
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GRR said, “Lydia, I have a dear friend here who is very Christ like. I have learned a great deal from him. He is not a gifted teacher and has a great deal to learn about biblical truth. That he may very well be a better Christian than I does not mean he is ready to be placed into a teaching role.”
GRR, I knew you believed this before you wrote it. Not because I have pre-deterministic powers, but because of the set of beliefs you hold. Your participation in this conversation is wonderful & gives us much to think about.
The logical fallacy you present is the notion one can only learn in a sterile, note taking, lecturing, “I will tell you what to think” environment. Learning from one who is authority to another under the authority. That is the big mistake in your belief system. Learning is wooden, prevents critical thinking, and one only knows what they’ve been told. You can’t be making a bigger mistake than that when it comes to learning, IMO.
If Jesus prized this type of learning, he would have gone straight to the synagogues & taught exactly the way you tell us it should happen. So, what did Jesus do?
Instead, Jesus grabbed the kind of people Lydia was talking about: fishermen & the like (today’s plumbers & the like). Then Jesus lived among them, loved them & taught them through example, parable, discussion, etc. Sorry to break the news to you Randy, but they were well equipped. And they loved Jesus. They were the ones God depended on to spread the good news. And they did it in a powerful, capable way.
I am a homeschool Mom. Funny, learning works much better the way Jesus (God) did it. Funny, it produces wise, highly capable, discerning thinkers naturally. And it makes me smarter along the way. We are to teach as we go about life, by default by example as well, the Bible says. It’s no wonder your “teaching authorities” produces adults who are still children, who still need their parent or pastor or elder or authority to think for them.
Randy, it’s interesting to me that you say your friend is very Christ like (maybe more than you, you said) but he is not capable of teaching, according to you. You say he is very Christ-like but doesn’t know much about biblical truth. Your emphasis is on biblical truth, but not Christ-likeness (You set up a false dichotomy: one can be Christ-like but not biblical). I think you’ve made our point for us. You deny much, but your own explanations tell us what you believe quite clearly. John Calvin emphasized “biblical truth” & rejected Christ-likeness. And what you said is a great example of theology trumps Christ.
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GRR, You really think it’s possible to follow Christ & not know biblical truth or vice versa? That, folks, is exactly how John Calvin operated in Geneva. Calvin thought he was the authority on biblical truth… even though his murderous actions weren’t Christ-like. Hide the kids & wallets from those who are authorities on biblical truth who aren’t Christ-like, IMO. I don’t care what they say they know or how much they know or what title or “authority” they have. I hope you would agree with this, GRR.
As for those who are Christ-like but have never seen a Bible… we would be wise & do well to watch & learn from them!
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GRR, Put aside whatever you want to call what you believe, for a moment. It looks like you believe teaching belongs to an authority in a spiritual hierarchy. And it is the only right way to teach Jesus.
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A mom,
You would be wrong again.
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DB,
I have a better idea. Why don’t you produce a single quote from a knowledgable Calvinist in which he states that material things are inherently evil?
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A Mom,
I believe you misquoted me again. I did not say my friend could not teach me anything. He teaches me a great deal about being content in spite of his physical maladies and material poverty. I believe every Christian has something to teach in that sense. What I said is that he is not yet equipped to teach theology. Not everyone is a gifted teacher. Their gifts lie in other areas. I believe in a peripatetic ministry, but someone in Jesus’ ministry was the teacher and others were students. This is why they were called “disciples.”
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A Mom,
“GRR, You really think it’s possible to follow Christ & not know biblical truth or vice versa?”
I think it is impossible to follow Christ without knowing biblical truth, but I believe it is possible to know biblical truth without following Christ.
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A Mom,
The Pope is probably “Christ-like” according to your definition, but I don’t intend to have him teach me theology.
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