Randy, you just contradicted yourself. You say that you are a Calvinist in terms of your soteriology, and yet you are not a follower of Calvin. It is Calvin’s soteriology that sets him apart from many other non-Romanists. When theology books speak of Calvinism generally, they are referring to his system of soteriology.
Are you a so-called Reformed Baptist? If you are, then you ought to be ashamed of yourself. The facts are that Calvinists are responsible for the torture and murder of Baptists, both in England, and even on American soil. And not only that, but they gloated about it.
You say that you know of no mordern Calvinist who advocates the capital or corporal punishment for heretics? Why should I believe you when the track record of Calvinists in power is so horrific? What about Calvinists and slavery? Were black people predestined to be slaves and to be whipped so hard that the skin was stripped off their backs? What about Calvinists and Apartheid in South Africa? The Dutch Boers were Calvinists and it was their spiritual elitism that eventually led to their racial elitism, and not the other way around. Why does Calvinism, when taken to its logical conclusion always produce rotten fruit? Pride, arrogance, whippings and torture for others. This is what the god of Calvinism produces in its followers.
Rousas J. Rushdoony believed in the use of whipping and enslavement as punishment for non-capital crimes:
Rushdoony’s belief that slavery should be re-introduced as an alternative to prison sentences is well known. “Punishment for non-capital crimes generally involves whipping or restitution in the form of indentured servitude or slavery. Prisons would likely be only temporary holding tanks while prisoners awaited sentencing”. (Frederick Clarkson, The Public Eye, March and June 1994 – http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v08n1/chrisre2.html). (see also http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v19n3/clarkson_dominionism.html for more of Clarkson’s work)
You did not address my statement about the Lord Jesus Christ Himself saying that “ye shall know them by their fruits”. Rotten fruit does not fall from a good tree.
How is it a Gnostic concept that we are to interpret all reality through a single prism? I am pretty sure I would not express my NTC views as some in the movement have. For example, I don’t believe the commands of the NT are unnecessary for believers. Please don’t judge me based on what others have written. If you want to interact with my NCT views, please interact with the 15 tenets of classic NCT posted on my blog.
paulspassingthoughts said, on February 14, 2014 at 8:41 PM
Randy–the single prism is the immutable true forms that must be accessed beyond the mutable shadows of the material world. This is part and parcel with your view of flesh and spirit being two different realms as you admitted to me in an email. This footprint is all over Reformed theology, especially in “the centrality of the objective gospel outside of us” and the “subjective power of the objective gospel.” The objective gospel is the gateway to the true forms–the only objective truth, and experienced subjectively in the shadow world. As one Calvinist pastor stated it to me: “Objective justification applied subjectively.” This is why your blog is named, “Truth Unchanging” and why Justin Taylor’s blog is named “Between Two Worlds.” And why Chad Bresson’s blog is named, “Between Two Spheres.”
As usual, you have missed the point, and in doing so have made my point. I was not suggesting that Ryan had been taught by a guru. My point was that he should not assume I am a follower of Calvin any more than I should assume he is a follower of Irving et. al.
Please read my statement. I said nothing about slavery or corporal or capital punishment for criminals. My statement was in regard to heretics. Perhaps R.R advocates such punishment for heretics as well. If so, he is simply being consistent with a part of Calvin’s theology with which I disagree.
No, I do not consider myself a Reformed Baptist. Most Reformed Baptists are just immersed Presbyterians. I am a New Covenant Baptist who believes in God’s sovereign grace in the salvation of sinners.
If rotten fruit doesn’t fall from a good tree, then true believers never sin.
“I met some illiterate peasants in a third world country that are more like Christ than anyone else I have ever met. So what are we to do with such people? We could not DARE let them pastor or teach.”
Lydia,
I have a dear friend here who is very Christ like. I have learned a great deal from him. He is not a gifted teacher and has a great deal to learn about biblical truth. That he may very well be a better Christian than I does not mean he is ready to be placed into a teaching role.
You have clearly misinterpreted my statements about flesh and Spirit. Both of these are characteristic of the present material world in which we live. The reign of the Spirit is not out there somewhere in a reality that is apart from the supposed shadow in which we live. That would be Platonism. What we live in is reality.
When Theology books refer to Calvinism soteriologically they refer not to followers of Calvin, but to those who are in general agreement with the Canons of Dort. There is some question as to whether Calvin would have been in complete agreement with the Canons of Dort.
I have never made a practice of lording over anyone. I have known pastors of every theological stripe who have thought they should “run” the church. It is not a problem caused by Calvinism. It is a problem caused by the sinful human condition.
lydiasellerofpurple said, on February 14, 2014 at 11:44 PM
“As usual, you have missed the point, and in doing so have made my point. I was not suggesting that Ryan had been taught by a guru. My point was that he should not assume I am a follower of Calvin any more than I should assume he is a follower of Irving et. al.”
Not really. Been reading you here for a long while and other places. I know how the game is played.
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
Randy, you just contradicted yourself. You say that you are a Calvinist in terms of your soteriology, and yet you are not a follower of Calvin. It is Calvin’s soteriology that sets him apart from many other non-Romanists. When theology books speak of Calvinism generally, they are referring to his system of soteriology.
Are you a so-called Reformed Baptist? If you are, then you ought to be ashamed of yourself. The facts are that Calvinists are responsible for the torture and murder of Baptists, both in England, and even on American soil. And not only that, but they gloated about it.
You say that you know of no mordern Calvinist who advocates the capital or corporal punishment for heretics? Why should I believe you when the track record of Calvinists in power is so horrific? What about Calvinists and slavery? Were black people predestined to be slaves and to be whipped so hard that the skin was stripped off their backs? What about Calvinists and Apartheid in South Africa? The Dutch Boers were Calvinists and it was their spiritual elitism that eventually led to their racial elitism, and not the other way around. Why does Calvinism, when taken to its logical conclusion always produce rotten fruit? Pride, arrogance, whippings and torture for others. This is what the god of Calvinism produces in its followers.
Rousas J. Rushdoony believed in the use of whipping and enslavement as punishment for non-capital crimes:
From http://www.bcseweb.org.uk/index.php/Main/RousasRushdoony
Rushdoony’s belief that slavery should be re-introduced as an alternative to prison sentences is well known. “Punishment for non-capital crimes generally involves whipping or restitution in the form of indentured servitude or slavery. Prisons would likely be only temporary holding tanks while prisoners awaited sentencing”. (Frederick Clarkson, The Public Eye, March and June 1994 – http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v08n1/chrisre2.html). (see also http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v19n3/clarkson_dominionism.html for more of Clarkson’s work)
You did not address my statement about the Lord Jesus Christ Himself saying that “ye shall know them by their fruits”. Rotten fruit does not fall from a good tree.
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Paul,
How is it a Gnostic concept that we are to interpret all reality through a single prism? I am pretty sure I would not express my NTC views as some in the movement have. For example, I don’t believe the commands of the NT are unnecessary for believers. Please don’t judge me based on what others have written. If you want to interact with my NCT views, please interact with the 15 tenets of classic NCT posted on my blog.
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Randy–the single prism is the immutable true forms that must be accessed beyond the mutable shadows of the material world. This is part and parcel with your view of flesh and spirit being two different realms as you admitted to me in an email. This footprint is all over Reformed theology, especially in “the centrality of the objective gospel outside of us” and the “subjective power of the objective gospel.” The objective gospel is the gateway to the true forms–the only objective truth, and experienced subjectively in the shadow world. As one Calvinist pastor stated it to me: “Objective justification applied subjectively.” This is why your blog is named, “Truth Unchanging” and why Justin Taylor’s blog is named “Between Two Worlds.” And why Chad Bresson’s blog is named, “Between Two Spheres.”
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…I would also refer you to Luther’s Heidelberg Disputation which is full of Gnostic goodies.
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Lydia,
As usual, you have missed the point, and in doing so have made my point. I was not suggesting that Ryan had been taught by a guru. My point was that he should not assume I am a follower of Calvin any more than I should assume he is a follower of Irving et. al.
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Ryan,
Please read my statement. I said nothing about slavery or corporal or capital punishment for criminals. My statement was in regard to heretics. Perhaps R.R advocates such punishment for heretics as well. If so, he is simply being consistent with a part of Calvin’s theology with which I disagree.
No, I do not consider myself a Reformed Baptist. Most Reformed Baptists are just immersed Presbyterians. I am a New Covenant Baptist who believes in God’s sovereign grace in the salvation of sinners.
If rotten fruit doesn’t fall from a good tree, then true believers never sin.
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Paul,
What does all that have to do with interpreting reality through a single prism?
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“I met some illiterate peasants in a third world country that are more like Christ than anyone else I have ever met. So what are we to do with such people? We could not DARE let them pastor or teach.”
Lydia,
I have a dear friend here who is very Christ like. I have learned a great deal from him. He is not a gifted teacher and has a great deal to learn about biblical truth. That he may very well be a better Christian than I does not mean he is ready to be placed into a teaching role.
LikeLike
Paul,
You have clearly misinterpreted my statements about flesh and Spirit. Both of these are characteristic of the present material world in which we live. The reign of the Spirit is not out there somewhere in a reality that is apart from the supposed shadow in which we live. That would be Platonism. What we live in is reality.
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Ryan,
When Theology books refer to Calvinism soteriologically they refer not to followers of Calvin, but to those who are in general agreement with the Canons of Dort. There is some question as to whether Calvin would have been in complete agreement with the Canons of Dort.
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Lydia,
I have never made a practice of lording over anyone. I have known pastors of every theological stripe who have thought they should “run” the church. It is not a problem caused by Calvinism. It is a problem caused by the sinful human condition.
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“As usual, you have missed the point, and in doing so have made my point. I was not suggesting that Ryan had been taught by a guru. My point was that he should not assume I am a follower of Calvin any more than I should assume he is a follower of Irving et. al.”
Not really. Been reading you here for a long while and other places. I know how the game is played.
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