14 Reasons Why Protestants are Damned by Double Imputation
The linchpin of the Protestant gospel is double imputation. What is it? It is a theory of salvation based on three false presuppositions about God’s law, or the Bible.
First, justification, or holiness, is defined by perfect law-keeping or the fulfillment of “the righteous demands of the law.”
Second, double imputation only has one perspective on the law, or confines the law to only one use by the Spirit. The law can only demand a perfect fulfillment of all its tenets and any shortfall or slightest infraction results in eternal condemnation.
Third, Christ not only died as a penal substitution for sins against the law, but also obeyed the law perfectly, and thereby obtained righteousness which is also imputed to the believer’s account.
I. Double imputation is not APART from the “law of sin and death.” It doesn’t matter who keeps the law; justification is “apart” from it (Romans 3:20, 28).
II. Double imputation makes Christ subservient to the law. Rather than Christ being righteous by virtue of who He was and is, double imputation demands that Christ “validated” himself through perfect law-keeping (Matthew 3:17, Romans 9:11).
III. Double imputation denies God as the Father and strips the significance of the title from God. Rather than the righteousness of God being infused into the believer through the new birth, righteousness is only credited to an untransformed person’s “account.” Therefore, the “believer” has “no righteousness of their own” which is stated as if righteousness can only be possessed by someone from whom the righteousness originated (2Timothy 1:9, 1Peter 2:9). Therefore…
IV. Double Imputation denies salvation as a gift and makes the new birth a mere legal declaration and not a new state of being (2Corinthians 5:17, Hebrews 3:1, Matthew 23:35). In addition…
V. Double imputation tries to call “righteousness apart from the law” a “legal declaration.” How is a “legal” declaration apart from the law? (Galatians 3:17).
VI. Double imputation makes salvation a mere covering, or atonement for sin and not an ending of sin. Sin is not taken away as far as the east is from the west, but only covered by a “righteousness not our own.”
VII. Double imputation denies that “God is one.” This refers to God as the only life-giver. This is the cardinal point of Galatians chapter 3. Double imputation claims that the law can give salvific life through its fulfillment. This makes the law a fourth member of the Trinity.
VIII. Double imputation denies the ministry of the Spirit in the life of the believer. The law can only be used for a condemning standard that defines righteousness rather than the Spirit using it to sanctify believers (John 17:17).
IX. Double imputation denies the ability of believers to love God and others. Since righteousness is also a substitution, any actual act of love must be a substitution and not really performed by the “believer.” Therefore…
X. Double imputation does, in fact, make God unrighteous; He not only forgets the loving service of the saints, but the “saints” are not able to perform acts of love to begin with (Hebrews 6:10, John 14:15, Romans 8:7, Romans 13:10).
XI. Double imputation leaves the “believer” enslaved to sin. Consequently…
XII. Double imputation will promote sin when Protestants are exposed to the law. Being still under law, Bible teaching will not promote a service of love to the law apart from condemnation, but will rather provoke one to more sin (Romans 6:14, 7:4-8).
XIII. Double imputation requires a reapplication of Christ’s “atonement” because “Christians” being under law continually fall short of the law. Being continually under condemnation, they need continued atonement (“We must preach the gospel to ourselves every day”). Hence…
XIV. Double imputation calls for a progressive justification (Hebrews 9:26).
paul
Protestantism and the Gnostic Resurgence

Mind triggers. Every time I see one of these advertisements for a “Christian” Alaska cruise I am reminded of how our present age is truly defined: it is a resurgence of the exact same Gnosticism that wreaked havoc on the 1st century assembly of Christ. Whether a pricy cruise/Bible study hosted by the Protestant philosopher king of your choice, or a Christian conference in Palm Springs, it is indicative of the fact that Gnosticism has always been a rich person’s game.
Why? First, money affords one the opportunity to wallow in a stimulating philosophy that doesn’t really work in real life. People who make between 20,000 and 50,000 per year with both spouses working do not have time for mysticism and would certainly end up homeless if they stopped long enough to partake in it. Protestantism is the same old song and dance of ancient caste which goes hand in hand with Gnosticism.
The institutional church in general, and the Protestant church in particular, is totally controlled by the rich and powerful. The power is defined by authoritative expertism and elitism; aka, the gnosis. When John MacArthur Jr. and many others host pricy events that exclude the serf class of Christianity by virtue of money alone, nobody even blinks.
So, these congregations are “families” and not caste institutions? Since when do families go on vacations with only part of the family? It’s a valid question; the church is earmarked for pricey events that exclude the church serf class. The only exception is potluck dinners where the serfs do most of the work. In fact, here is a better illustration: in caste societies, the elitist educated class does little work in the same way that pastors are supported by the working serfs.
Moreover, pastorates are cushy elitist jobs occupied by some of the laziest people on earth. Pastors spend most of their time hanging out in their offices reading the latest book by some other Protestant hack, going out to lunch and dinner with other pastors and rich congregants, or attending conferences paid for by the church serf class.
Pastors are little more productive than congressional politicians. I know, I was a Protestant pastor for years and experienced the pastorate culture up close and personal. I remember, while at a conference, hearing one staff pastor laugh about being able to go golfing after long elder meetings while the lay-elders had to go to work the next day, or in essence, that morning. And if I stated the guy’s name here in this post, most readers would know who he is.
As far as studying to show themselves approved, most pastors use canned orthodox outlines. Few professions on earth are more useless.
Like Catholicism, historical geo-economic conditions fail to hinder the building of splendid infrastructure and the lifestyles of elitist priests. This is because the serf class has bought into the ancient idea that salvation comes by approval from those who have the gnosis of Gnosticism. Regardless of financial hardship, God will smile on doing whatever it takes to support His “authority on earth” to the degree that they think they need supporting. Degree of assurance is measured by the degree of self-sacrifice that benefits these lazy self-proclaimed mediators that replace Christ as the only true mediator between God and mankind.
The better way is God’s family meeting as a family in a family home where all are recognized as part of “God’s holy nation of royal priests.” A literal family in a family setting naturally transcends caste elitism. In such an environment, the head needs more of a variety of gifts than the ability to give money because so much money isn’t needed to fund self-proclaimed authority by serial narcissists. This is a family setting dependent upon a fully functioning body that recognizes ONE authority and ONE mediator.
That being Christ, and Him alone. The Solus Christus of the institutional church is a lie, that mantra is only lived out in home fellowships.
paul
Calvinism and the Problem with Perfection
Originally published November 7, 2013
Augustine, Luther, and Calvin were first and foremost Platonists. They integrated the Bible with Platonism. Plato’s theory of forms posits the idea of two worlds; the mutable material world of illusion where reality can only be partially known, and another world where the immutable objective true forms exist. This material world is a shadow world; everything is shadows of the true forms. Therefore, man can only interpret and experience this world subjectively. The tendency is to interpret reality by observing the shadows. To the degree that mankind thinks the material world is reality according to the five senses, subjectivity and chaos will abound.
Therefore, Plato’s ethic was to improve the subjective experience of this life by accessing the true forms through ideas and mathematics—things that transcend the five senses (he believed math was an unchangeable rule and therefore not part of the shadow world). He believed that those who have the capability and willingness to bring more understanding of the objective into the subjective to be an elite minority. These were Plato’s philosopher kings whom he thought should rule society in order to decrease chaos as much as possible. Without philosopher kings, the world would be awash in a sea of subjectivity, everyone living by their own subjective presuppositions based on the shadows of this world. Hence, the arch enemy of the Platonic ideal is individualism.
Plato’s world of true objective forms was his trinity of the true, good, and beautiful. Experiencing the pure form of goodness in this world is impossible—only a shadow of good can be experienced subjectively. Plato’s social engineering has a doctrine, and to the degree that doctrine is applied, a higher quality of subjective existence occurs.
The Reformers put a slightly different twist on this construct. There is no doctrine to apply, only an orthodoxy that focuses on seeing and experiencing. Their version of Plato’s philosopher kings are pastors who possess the power of the keys. Orthodoxy is mediated truth determined by “Divines,” and passed down to the masses for the purpose of experiencing the objective power of the gospel subjectively. The Reformers made the true forms “the gospel,” and reality itself the gospel, ie., the work and personhood of Jesus Christ in particular.
Therefore, in the same way Plato envisioned a society that experiences the power of the true forms subjectively through ideas and immutable disciplines like mathematics, the Reformers sought a heightened subjective experience through a deeper and deeper knowledge of their own true, good, and beautiful—the gospel. And more specifically, instead of the gateway of understanding being reason, ideas, and immutable disciplines, they made the gospel itself the interpretive prism. So: life, history, the Bible, ie., everything, is a tool for experiencing true reality (the gospel) in a higher quality subjectivity. The Bible and all life events are a gospel hermeneutic. Salvation itself is the interpretive prism. All of reality is about redemption. Salvation itself is the universal hermeneutic.
But both constructs have this in common: Pure goodness and perfection cannot exist objectively in the material world. This is where Calvinism and Platonism kiss. The Bible only agrees with this if it is a “gospel narrative.” But if it is God’s full orbed philosophical statement to all men to be interpreted grammatically and exegetically, contradictions abound. To wit, if man possesses goodness and the ability to interpret reality objectively, Platonism and its Reformed children are found wanting. If Reformation orthodoxy is not evaluated biblically with the very theses of its own orthodoxy as a hermeneutic, even more wantonness is found.
The Apostles rejected Platonism because they believed goodness and perfection could indeed be found in this material world. There is no question of the quality of goodness inside of man that enables mankind to interpret reality objectively, the quantity of goodness notwithstanding. In contrast, a dominate theme in the Calvin Institutes is the idea that no person lost or saved can perform a good work. Like Plato’s geometric hermeneutics, the Reformers believed the Law lends understanding to man’s inability to do good because eternal perfection is the standard. The best of man’s works are tainted with sin to some degree, and therefore imperfect. Even if man could perform one perfect work, one sin makes mankind a violator of the whole law. The Reformers were adamant that no person could do any good work whether saved or lost.
Why all the fuss over this point? Why was Calvin dogmatic about this idea to the point of annoyance? Because he was first and foremost a Platonist. The idea that a pure form of good could be found within mankind was metaphysical heresy. Because such contradicts every page of the Bible, the Reformers’ Platonist theology was made the hermeneutic as well. Instead of the interpretation method producing the theology, they made the theology the method of interpretation. If all of reality is redemptive, it must be interpreted the same way.
For the Platonist, the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh poses a huge problem. He is the truth. He came to the material world in a material body. Platonism became Gnosticism and wreaked havoc on the 1st century church. Notice how the first sentences of 1John are a direct pushback against the Gnosticism of that day:
1John 1:1 – That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
Christ is the true, good, and beautiful, and He was touched, felt, seen, heard, and understood. Game over. This is the paramount melding of Plato’s two worlds resulting in a plenary decimation of his philosophy. Nevertheless, Calvin et al got around that by keeping mankind in a subjective realm while making the material world a gospel hermeneutic. Reality still cannot be understood unless it is interpreted by the gospel—everything else is shadows.
Martin Luther took Plato’s two worlds and made them two stories: our own subjective story, a self “glory story” that leads to a labyrinth of subjectivism, or the “cross story” which is the objective gospel. Luther made Plato’s two worlds two stories, but still, they are two realms: one objective and one subjective. In the final analysis mankind is still incompetent, and void of any good whether saved or lost.
Whether the Reformed gospel or Platonism, the infusion of objective goodness is the heresy. Man cannot have any righteousness in and of himself, whether lost or saved. The pushback against this idea can be seen throughout the New Testament. A few examples follow:
1John 2:4 – Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.
1John 2:20 – But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.
1John 2:26 – I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
1John 2:29 – If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.
1John 3:2 – Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[a] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. 4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
Romans 15:14 – I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able to instruct one another.
Christians can know goodness, and perform righteousness objectively. This speaks to the quality of the righteousness when it is performed—it is perfect and acceptable to God. We are not limited to a mere subjective experience in regard to righteousness. When we are resurrected, the quantity thereafter will be 100%, but our present righteousness is acceptable to God when it is performed by us. If it is accepted by God, it is perfect.
Even the unregenerate know good, and can perform it. The works of the law are written on their hearts, and their consciences either accuse or excuse them (Romans 2:12-15). Though enslaved to unrighteousness, they are free to perform righteousness (Romans 6:20). The very goodness of God can be understood from observing creation as well (Romans 1:20).
The only way the Reformers can make all goodness outside of man is to make the Bible a salvation hermeneutic. It is the only way they could integrate the Bible with their Platonist philosophy.
paul
In Regard to Debating Protestants
Protestants, especially those of the Reformed stripe, are the most intellectually dishonest people among men. When it gets right down to it, as someone mentioned just yesterday, any attempt to debate a Protestant is a “fool’s errand.”
Why is this? I think my encounter with John Piper at the 2016 Cross Conference put the reasons on full display.
During an open Q and A session that will be a format unlikely to be repeated at future Neo-Calvinist conferences, I confronted Piper about Calvin’s three categories of election; the non-elect, the temporary elect, and those who persevere, or the permanent elect (Calvin Institutes 3.24).
He had just finished stating his position on predestination in response to a question about lost relatives. His position? Though the thought of relatives spending eternity in hell is agonizing, the fact that God elects some people for salvation should give us hope. Otherwise, there would be no hope that anyone would be saved.
My question to Piper followed immediately after: how can any of us know we are saved when Calvin’s temporary election is considered? His answer follows:
“I don’t know Calvin well enough to answer. I don’t believe there is any such thing as temporary election. So, if he says that I don’t agree with him.”
I then offered to read Calvin’s position on temporary election from the Calvin Institutes. Piper then replied, “You don’t need to read it he’s not my authority.” Problem is, here is what Piper stated in his opening to the Q and A shortly before our exchange:
“So, I am committed to election, predestination, effectual calling, and the whole Calvinistic scheme.”
I called him out on the contradiction: “You referred to the whole Calvinistic scheme like 5 minutes ago.” To which he replied, “Right, the whole scheme of TULIP. The Institutes are 1100 pages and there are lots of them I don’t agree with but let’s just go to the Bible.”
There are several problems to be noted here regarding Piper’s legitimate knowledge of Calvinism while claiming to be one, and his blatant flip-flopping of positions within the same conversation.
First, if people would educate themselves about Piper’s primary mentor, Jonathan Edwards, they would find that Edwards wrote about the joy we will experience in heaven while watching our former family members suffer in hell. Supposedly. While often referring to Edwards as an example of pure genius, Piper seems to feel our agony about condemned relatives. My point? The history of Protestantism’s psychopathic murdering despot forefathers should discredit Protestantism all by itself. Augustine, Luther, and Calvin are held up as heroes of the faith while a cursory observation of history will reveal who they really were.
Secondly, while Piper surprisingly pointed to his lack of knowledge concerning Calvin while claiming to be a Calvinist, he later claimed to be aware of several pages in the Calvin Institutes that he disagrees with. Which is it? Does he know Calvin well, or not well? He stated both in the same conversation.
Thirdly, when called out about saying he is committed to the whole Calvinistic scheme and then rejecting Calvin as an authority, he answered by saying that his statement only referred to TULIP. There are two problems here: TULIP doesn’t represent the whole scheme of Calvinism and TULIP is not from Calvin but rather the Synod of Dort.
Fourthly, during said Q and A, Piper claimed to be an advocate of OSAS concerning the elect, and contended via the Bible that “those who left us where never of us,” or in other words, were never God’s true elect. But Calvin clearly states in the Institutes that the temporary elect are also temporarily “illumined” and suffer a greater damnation than the non-elect accordingly.
Fifthly, while recognizing that he threw Calvin under the bus to save face and quickly claimed to be a Biblicist instead, he proceeded to use the Bible to defend his version of election which includes “effectual calling.” Only problem is, the Bible makes it clear that “many are called but few chosen.” This is the verse that Calvin used to make his case for temporary election. The “called” are the second class of elect who fall away, or the ones temporarily elected and illumined for purposes of suffering a greater damnation for God’s glory, and those who persevere are the permanent elect.
Hence, in fact, and in contrast to the Bible according to Calvin, some of God’s gifts and callings are revoked.
Though Piper denied this in the Q and A, Calvin’s position of temporary election is reflected in the Protestant tradition of supersessionism. This is the idea that Israel was, well, temporarily elected and replaced by the church.
Sixthly, here was my response to Piper’s rejection of temporary election: “And if that’s true, why is ‘final justification’ (a staple Protestant doctrine) future and not present?” To which he replied, “I do believe that justification is present, and will be confirmed in the last day.”
So, if justification is confirmed on the last day, how can he say that “those who left us were never of us”? If they already left us, why would those who didn’t leave us need to be confirmed on the last day? And if they didn’t leave, doesn’t that mean they persevered?
Seventh, while throwing Calvin under the bus and quickly becoming a Biblicist, he denied the clear teaching of Scripture concerning multiple judgments. If justification is “confirmed on the last day,” doesn’t that mean believers and unbelievers all stand at one final judgement? Sure it does; and in fact, that’s Protestant orthodoxy. The huge problem with that follows: CLEARLY, all who stand at that judgement are condemned and judged by the law. This is not only a Piperist propagation of Progressive Justification, but an admission that Protestants are biblically defined as “under law.”
The problem with debating a Protestant is simple: they will continually move the goal posts and redefine terms. Many of their interpretive doctrines have it both ways: “Already, not yet.” “Simultaneously saint and sinner.” “Distinct, but never separate,” and “the paradoxical gospel.”
Therefore, the endeavor to debate a Protestant is indeed a fool’s errand.
paul
Guest Writer John Immel: All You Ever Need to Know To Debate A Calvinist
Posted with permission.
Grace Writer Randy is predictable even if he happens to believe he is an original independent thinker. Just to be clear: he’s not.
But the up side for PPT readers is we get to learn something valuable about the nature of Neo Calvinist argumentative techniques.
I made this assertion on Paul’s Passing Thoughts May 4, 2017 at 2:32 PM
“This has ONE result. No matter how often you peg Randy into a Calvinist corner he will waive the magic wand of his whim and side step the issue because HE doesn’t believe that. He is not intellectually accountable to any objective standard. No matter how many scriptures you stack in service to illustrating progressive justification he will never concede. No matter how many times you quote Calvin, or Luther or any of the Neo Cal luminaries to illustrate the doctrinal error endemic to the protestant house of cards he will pretend they are some fringe inconsequential distributors of non essential doctrines. (Which has pretty much been the rhetorical theme above)”
Which prompted this response from Randy on May 4, 2017 at 3:13 PM
John,
I am intellectually accountable to one objective standard and one objective standard alone. That standard is the Word of God interpreted according to widely accepted principles of interpretation. It is that standard I intend to rely on.
You, Dear PPT Reader, can go sift through the broader context at your leisure, however I want to address the intellectual slight-of-hand displayed in Randy’s response. You will see this again over and over from Reformed Theology defenders.
Let us dissect:
- My challenge: Randy is not intellectually accountable to an objective standard.
- The rebuttal: Randy is accountable to the “objective” word of God: e.g. a book.
We will get to the B. Part of his assertion in a minute but let’s focus on the A part first.
So here is the implied loose logic: Because there is a book that is metaphysically existent, the book qualifies as objective. Now I recognize that he doesn’t say book, but unless Randy is claiming to HEAR God’s voice then what are we talking about?
Herein is the slight-of-hand. Because the book (full of words) exists he is accountable to something that everyone can perceive, therefore he is accountable to the objective. Because the book contains “God’s words”, Randy’s mind is “accountable” to its content. So then it logically follows that his (Randy’s) ideas are the product of an objective standard.
The book exists, therefore the rational standard is objective.
I’m sure that PPT readers immediately see the slight-of-hand, but for the New Calvinist lurking in the audience I’ll connect the dots. After all, Al Mohler needs to help you all think about things, I can at least help too.
Ehem . . .
Just because someone thumps an ESV (touches it, fingers it, fondles it) doesn’t make the ideas extracted from the words “objective” any more than touching a rock makes stone mason understand how to build a cathedral.
Randy is doing what Calvinist defenders do: mix and match metaphysical expectations with epistemological conclusions. He casually overlooks the rational INDIVIDUAL process required to grasp the “objective” words written on the page.
Now let’s evaluate:
Notice that, at the root, Randy must take literacy as a given to the “objective standard.” But how can something be objective if it requires the ability read before the standard can be realized?
The answer is, it can’t. The fact is, literacy is just the beginning of the long epistemological/conceptual chain an individual must progress through before they end up with a formal a doctrinal declaration. Or said another way, hundreds of highly individual cognitive evolutions are integrated with incalculable subjective conclusions loooooong before a person can declare intellectual solidarity with the Apostle Paul’s understanding of “Gnostic.”
For example: Randy said on May 4, 2017 at 3:22 PM
“. . . Contrary to your “understanding” of the term flesh, neither Paul nor we use the term to refer to the material as opposed to the spiritual as the Gnostics did, for example. If that were the meaning, Christ would have been evil since he was in a body of flesh. If you are going to accuse us, at least learn what we believe well enough to state it accurately.”
Me paraphrasing Randy’s argument: “My understanding is biblical because the bible says so—in Greek— and the bible says so because my understanding is biblical—in Greek.”
And of course it is MY understanding of Gnosticism that is in error because Randy and Jesus and Paul are Greek speaking intellectual home boys. (For those of you who care, check out my TANC 2013 videos for a thorough evaluation of the evolution of Cynic and Stoic thought—aka Gnostic—and its impact on Christianity) Never mind that I was really challenging Randy’s claim to be a representative of authentic Christian doctrine and the historic doctrine of Pervasive Depravity as articulated by Augustine and Luther, and the formal declaration of Calvin’s ICR (3rd chapter et al) and the subsequent doctrinal variations of Jonathan Edwards, indwelling sin, and the likes of John Piper and Wayne Grudem . . .
. . .
. . .
Oops sorry, I fell asleep even mentioning Wayne’s name. (Oh dear God could there be a more boring speaker on the planet?)
Anyway, now that I have taken a hit of my Five Hour energy, let me return to the dissection of Grace Writer Randy.
BTW: does this name imply yet another departure from Orthodox doctrine? Does Randy mean to say that HIS writing is a means of grace?
Orthodoxy = Reformed Theology = Calvin’s ICR. Uhh . . . there is NO human agency in God’s salvific plan. Soooo . . . how does Randy, typing words, commute grace?
I know, Randy will say that HE doesn’t believe that there is no human agency, and since he and Jesus and Paul all agree—in Greek—it’s HIS understanding that grasps the truth. Alakazam poof! He is the best representative of Protestant doctrine no matter what historic Protestant doctrine says.
So now for part B.
Randy said: ” . . . That standard is the Word of God interpreted according to widely accepted principles of interpretation. It is that standard I intend to rely on.”
So Randy understands that the mere existence of a book is “objectively” problematic, so he must introduce another element into the rational equation: widely accepted interpretive principles.
The first tragedy is that he actually thinks this makes HIS intellectual conclusion “objective.”
The second tragedy is . . . you will hear this argument from ALL Neo Cal defenders.
Come on Dear PPT reader, you see the error right? Truth is determined by democratic majority? (e.g. widely accepted?)
LOL . . . if that is the case then a Billion Chinese can’t be wrong about the Buddha or Confucius.
Does that mean the earth is really flat? That idea was “widely accepted.” I’m just saying.
In what age were these interpretive principles widely accepted? From the first century to roughly the 3rd century there was no “bible” to interpret. From the 6th century to the 13th century, allegory was the primary interpretive method. Systematic theology, of the Wayne ( . . . snoooz . . .) oh sorry . . . Grudem’s kind didn’t show up until the 14th (?) century and modern higher critical methodology (the endless parsing of Greek roots that so many bible teachers are fond of) doesn’t show up until Fredrick Schleiermacher in the 18th century. So which age represents the definitive interpretive standard?
I mean if we are going to thump our ESV’s or our KJV’s or our NIV’s, shouldn’t we make sure we are using the approach that Jesus and Paul used. Oh wait, uh . . . they didn’t have any of those versions.
Hummm, how can we be Jesus’ and Paul’s intellectual home boys when we have resources they never did?
Wait, how can there even BE versions if the interpretive principles are so . . . “widely accepted.” How can there be Dynamic Equivalent translations (NIV) and Literal translations (KJV) or Free translations (Cotton Patch version—yes it exits) if everyone, who is anyone, all thinks that interpretive principles are set in collective stone?
And double wait: If we are going to be real bible purists, doesn’t it follow that all those Greeks speaking Greek words had the most precise insights to intellectual solidarity with Paul and Jesus? (Never mind that Jesus probably didn’t speak Greek. Just go with it. Jesus acted in perfect harmony with OUR 21st century doctrine damn it!)
Notice Randy thinks just that: May 4, 2017 at 3:29 PM
“John,
You do know that we don’t define words subjectively but by observing their usage, don’t you? In order to understand what a biblical word/phrase means, we observe how a Greek word e.g., was used in Classical Greek, the LXX, Common Greek of the first century, and from the NT usage in various contexts. There is hardly anything subjective about that is there?”
This is soooo fun. All of you English speaking Christians are certainly going to hell. Real Christians read the bible in Greek and maybe some Hebrew. The Jews rejected Jesus so maybe it is OK for Christians to forsake the language of the Christ slayers.
Ehem . . .
Sorry I was briefly channeling Martin Luther.
But seriously PPT readers, think of the profound conceit Randy’s comment represents. So, somehow Greek minds had a superior understanding of God from an anthology that doesn’t take on its final—sort of—form until the council of Trent in the 16th century; an anthology whose source work came from Saint Jerome in the fourth century who first compiled and edited the LATIN Vulgate bible.
????!!! You saw the conflict there right? Greek intellectual superiority from LATIN cannon?
(This is me with my WTF face)
We haven’t even gotten to the part where a Protestant King decided to take a red pen to a whole bunch of books to make the current 66 more printable.
????!!!
How many leaps of infallible logic does one have to presume to arrive at the notion that they, sitting in 21st century America, speaking English, with a laptop based Strong’s Concordance, have arrived at THE final recitation of all truth for mankind.
Holy $&!t! The arrogance is staggering.
Now I am going to double down on my original assertion:
The root issue is . . . Randy accepts no “proof” because he needs no proof. He accepts no definitions other than his own because his mind is the doctrinal plumb line. HE presumes that he understand everything bible correctly and . . . you don’t.
His real doctrinal commitment has nothing to do with orthodoxy, or Calvinism or any of the other pretense.
. . .
His singular rational standard his HIS subjective doctrinal assumptions; he reserves the sole right to determine what is “biblical.”
And this, PPT reader, is all you will ever need to know when talking to Calvinist. You can NEVER out authority a Calvinist because they recognize no authority but their own.
~ John Immel


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