Why Home Fellowships Can Help Abused Women and the Institutional Church Cannot
Originally published March 31, 2015
In our vision for a return to the way Judeo-Christian assemblies were done for about the first 300 years, let’s look at why home fellowships can help abused women and the institutional church cannot.
I would like to use this article as a catalyst for argumentation. The article was posted (author is not clearly stated) by Anna Wood who co-authored a book with Jeff Crippen, a Reformed pastor. The book can be found here.
The post is titled, What domestic abuse victims need from the church. My contention is that abused women cannot get what they need from “the church” as demonstrated over and over and over again. In fact, clearly, as also demonstrated over and over and over again as well, the institutional church adds to the abuse and becomes a co-abuser.
Why is this? The article offers a perspective from which to answer. This issue also speaks to the differences between home fellowships and the institutional church, hereafter “the church.” In an institution, it is easy to sign on the dotted line, give at the office, and pretend. Pastors can bark from Calvin’s Geneva pulpit all they want to; all folks have to say is, “Hey, I am a member in good standing, and as often heard, humble and incompetent—it’s not my gift and I am not qualified.” Likewise, in said article, the author’s call to “get involved” is going nowhere in the church in case anyone hasn’t noticed.
To the contrary, home fellowships are comprised of people who are sick of playing church, are weary of being mere spectators, and are not looking to walk into an arena with hungry lions, but know it could lead to that. They are also confident in the Spirit-filled laity and recognize where 500 years of academic popeism has brought us. In addition, they have a literal view of reality versus the functional dualism that drives orthodoxy. What am I saying? I am saying that home fellowships have a radically different worldview than orthodoxy and this will lead to aggressive participation in all kinds of needs.
Let me further this point by using the article at hand:
Statistics say that one out of four women in the United States experience domestic abuse of some form in their lifetime. Men can also be victims of domestic abuse. When those who have suffered are members of the Lord’s church, the faithful among them have an obligation to help them. And, if we know of someone in the community who is being abused, I also believe we have an obligation to help if we can. When, for whatever reason, we shy away from this obligation, either through ignorance or willful refusal to get involved, we lay waste to the Gospel we claim to believe. Christians are called to defend the oppressed yet when it comes to domestic violence, so few do.
What abuse victims need from their fellow Christians is pretty simple and straightforward. We need you to be Jesus to us. Do what He would do, say what He would say, were He the One ministering to us. Isn’t that what we all need from each other, anyway? Christians are called to stand in the place of Christ here on the earth and be His representative and do the works He would do. To fail in this is to fail in serving Christ.
Whoa, what a minute here! This is entirely unrealistic because of the message constantly drilled into the heads of Protestants. We are “all just sinners saved by grace.” We are, according to one prominent evangelical, “enemies of God.” According to yet another, “we hate God.” On the one hand, it is constantly drilled into the heads of those in the church that “when you are dead, you can do nothing,” but on the other hand we really think that parishioners shouldn’t think twice about getting involved in a domestic abuse situation?
First of all, getting involved in domestic violence is not “pretty simple.” Actually, it can get you killed by someone who doesn’t much appreciate your intervention. Moreover, getting the facts and evaluating the situation biblically is far from simple. Now couple that with the constant total depravity of the saints mantra heard in the church and it is little wonder that few will get involved in domestic abuse needs. The completely upside down worldview of the church makes laity involvement in domestic abuse nothing more than a pipe dream.
And, “Christians are called to defend the oppressed yet when it comes to domestic violence, so few do.” This complaint is not only a mere symptom, but is not even a symptom of the real problem. Congregants not only fail to defend the oppressed, they either turn a blind eye or defend the defender of the abusers—the church. Ever heard of SGM? Ever heard of ABWE? Ever heard of the SBC? In case you haven’t noticed, they are not only still in business, but business is booming! Why? Because regardless of what happens in the church, it is the only ticket to heaven. “What? so billions of people should go to hell because some bad things happen in the church that is made up of sinners? Well, get a grip—where there are people, there is sin!” That is in quotations because this is exactly what we hear in response to a “cry for justice.”
So far, if you are keeping notes, we have two reasons the church cannot help abused women: 1. The total depravity of the saints resulting in a few “experts” attempting to minister to a massive throng 2. Salvation is found in the institution, and therefore the institution will be defended at all cost. Better that a few suffer by themselves rather than all of humanity being sent to hell.
Before we move on to the next points, a little more clarification: why does the church defend abusers? It starts with its worldview. Without going into a lot of detail, we must first recognize that Calvin and Luther are the church’s heroes, and then recognize what their “theology of the cross” was all about. This is a philosophy that interprets all reality via the suffering of the cross. As Luther stated, “all wisdom is hidden in suffering.” Luther, as well as Calvin, split reality into two epistemologies: the cross story and the glory story. Only preordained leaders can lead the great unwashed masses in the cross story—only the preordained can save humanity from the story of man, or the glory story. As Al Mohler once said, “pastors are preordained to save God’s people from ignorance.”
However, theologians of the cross and the spiritual peasantry have something in common: we are all just sinners saved by grace. So, everything going on in the material realm is fairly insignificant—it’s just the same old sin and dance anyway. But by the same token, theologians of the cross are preordained of God and invaluable. And besides, many are icons of the institution that keep the money rolling in. Sure, you can reject this theory and opt for another one, but in the process you will drive yourself nuts trying to figure out why ABWE defended and protected Donn Ketcham until the bitter end.
Need another example among myriads? What about Jack Hyles? The guy was a mafia don dressed in Bible verses and is still a spiritual hero among many Baptists. David Hyles, Jack’s son, was also a well-respected pastor in the church who had affairs with at least 19 women and is a suspect in an unsolved murder. Yet, to the best of my knowledge to date, David Hyles is still invited to speak at Baptist conferences/churches and receives robust ovations. Jack Hyles remained in the pulpit until his death in 2001 and was succeeded by his son in law Jack Schaap who is presently in prison for statutory rape. Jack Hyles is notorious for his quip, “If you didn’t see it, it didn’t happen” and is still revered among many Baptists as the best preacher since the apostle Paul.
The article continues with its list of things abuse victims need from “the church.” But the thesis of this article is that the church is not only unable to supply these things, but becomes a co-abuser. In contrast, the original Christian model for fellowship is well able to help and more likely to do just that.
First on the list is “The Pure Gospel.”
The church long ago got away from the pure gospel. We water it down, mix it up and serve it with a side of fun. No wonder it doesn’t save. It can’t save. It’s poison. We need preachers dedicated to the truth of God’s Word who are willing to stand up and preach that truth without changing it one iota. We need Christians who long after righteousness. When we have that–the pure Gospel preached and lived–we’ll see more Christians helping abuse victims and we’ll see less abusers masquerading as Christians.
Uh, ok, not sure how to add to this. It’s a stunning admission while calling on the same church to do something about the problem it has created. We don’t need “preachers” to do anything. Preachers have been preaching long and hard for thousands of years and the results are evident. We need God’s people to stand up and get back to the first works of home fellowship. The laity waiting on the experts is long traveled and worthless. More of what is beginning to happen needs to happen more and more. Ordinary Spirit-filled Christians are meeting together around the word and fellowship, and seeking God’s face in this whole matter about how church is traditionally practiced. And the fact that the church is grounded in a false gospel is something I addressed in another article posted today and Friday.
Without addressing every single point in the article other than those mentioned already, let me move on to this one:
Someone to care for their needs
Do you know what keeps a lot of abused women and children with their abusers? The lack of money to leave. If a woman is trying to get herself and her children to safety, don’t spend time telling her why she’s wrong, what you think about her decision or trying to talk her out of it. She knows what it’s like to live in abuse and you don’t. Even if she stays, chances are great that she and her children need something or maybe a lot of things. Financial abuse often accompanies other types of abuse. Instead of lecturing, get busy serving and help them.
According to the first-century model, a home fellowship network would be several small groups meeting in several homes in the same geographical area. And because of freedom from massive infrastructure cost and “tithing” versus New Testament giving based on NEED only funds and resources to help the abused would be ample. In fact, I could share an example from our very own home fellowship. We have a young lady living with us, and other people connected to our fellowship contribute financially to her needs. She is fully supported independently from anybody who might be a problem in her life. And when people live with you, trust me, you know the facts and you do a lot of listening. She will be completely self-reliant this month after living with us for about two years.
In regard to a different kind of abuse, a home fellowship network that I know of in Africa operates in the following way: the network assimilates street orphans from Nairobi into their fellowships. There is a leader from the network, equipped with the latest information about funds and availability that goes into Nairobi searching for orphans, and upon finding some, brings them back to the fellowship network where they will have a home, food, protection, and education. Let’s say that our home fellowships are connected with theirs; many of these children could be brought stateside and assimilated into fellowship here as well.
In addition to being freed from the bondage of infrastructure expense, the authority of the church’s clergy is suffocating. Clergy, more times than not, are control freaks obsessed with keeping the herd calm. They are spiritual cowboys constantly concerned with the herd being spooked. This speaks to the rest of the concerns in the post being considered here. More times than not, the laity are kept in the dark concerning the needs of those abused. There is a wall of confidentiality between the church’s “trained” counselors and the parishioners who fund the whole mess. When red flags are raised in regard to how certain situations are handled, we are told that “we should trust the elders who are closest to the situation and know all of the details.” This continually proves to be a recipe for disaster, and elders are granted NO such authority via the Scriptures.
Small groups in private homes offer intimate support and confidentiality from the other home fellowships. It is a perfect balance of intimate care and financial support if needed. All of the different gifts and experiences of Christ’s body are brought to bear on the situation.
Also, we must remember that the home fellowship movement is comprised of people from all walks of life: policemen, mental health professionals, etc., etc. These people or their areas of expertise are not separated from any situation by the professional clergy for inappropriate reasons.
paul
14 Reasons Why Protestants are Damned by Double Imputation
The linchpin of the Protestant gospel is double imputation. What is it? It is a theory of salvation based on three false presuppositions about God’s law, or the Bible.
First, justification, or holiness, is defined by perfect law-keeping or the fulfillment of “the righteous demands of the law.”
Second, double imputation only has one perspective on the law, or confines the law to only one use by the Spirit. The law can only demand a perfect fulfillment of all its tenets and any shortfall or slightest infraction results in eternal condemnation.
Third, Christ not only died as a penal substitution for sins against the law, but also obeyed the law perfectly, and thereby obtained righteousness which is also imputed to the believer’s account.
I. Double imputation is not APART from the “law of sin and death.” It doesn’t matter who keeps the law; justification is “apart” from it (Romans 3:20, 28).
II. Double imputation makes Christ subservient to the law. Rather than Christ being righteous by virtue of who He was and is, double imputation demands that Christ “validated” himself through perfect law-keeping (Matthew 3:17, Romans 9:11).
III. Double imputation denies God as the Father and strips the significance of the title from God. Rather than the righteousness of God being infused into the believer through the new birth, righteousness is only credited to an untransformed person’s “account.” Therefore, the “believer” has “no righteousness of their own” which is stated as if righteousness can only be possessed by someone from whom the righteousness originated (2Timothy 1:9, 1Peter 2:9). Therefore…
IV. Double Imputation denies salvation as a gift and makes the new birth a mere legal declaration and not a new state of being (2Corinthians 5:17, Hebrews 3:1, Matthew 23:35). In addition…
V. Double imputation tries to call “righteousness apart from the law” a “legal declaration.” How is a “legal” declaration apart from the law? (Galatians 3:17).
VI. Double imputation makes salvation a mere covering, or atonement for sin and not an ending of sin. Sin is not taken away as far as the east is from the west, but only covered by a “righteousness not our own.”
VII. Double imputation denies that “God is one.” This refers to God as the only life-giver. This is the cardinal point of Galatians chapter 3. Double imputation claims that the law can give salvific life through its fulfillment. This makes the law a fourth member of the Trinity.
VIII. Double imputation denies the ministry of the Spirit in the life of the believer. The law can only be used for a condemning standard that defines righteousness rather than the Spirit using it to sanctify believers (John 17:17).
IX. Double imputation denies the ability of believers to love God and others. Since righteousness is also a substitution, any actual act of love must be a substitution and not really performed by the “believer.” Therefore…
X. Double imputation does, in fact, make God unrighteous; He not only forgets the loving service of the saints, but the “saints” are not able to perform acts of love to begin with (Hebrews 6:10, John 14:15, Romans 8:7, Romans 13:10).
XI. Double imputation leaves the “believer” enslaved to sin. Consequently…
XII. Double imputation will promote sin when Protestants are exposed to the law. Being still under law, Bible teaching will not promote a service of love to the law apart from condemnation, but will rather provoke one to more sin (Romans 6:14, 7:4-8).
XIII. Double imputation requires a reapplication of Christ’s “atonement” because “Christians” being under law continually fall short of the law. Being continually under condemnation, they need continued atonement (“We must preach the gospel to ourselves every day”). Hence…
XIV. Double imputation calls for a progressive justification (Hebrews 9:26).
paul
Protestantism and the Gnostic Resurgence
Mind triggers. Every time I see one of these advertisements for a “Christian” Alaska cruise I am reminded of how our present age is truly defined: it is a resurgence of the exact same Gnosticism that wreaked havoc on the 1st century assembly of Christ. Whether a pricy cruise/Bible study hosted by the Protestant philosopher king of your choice, or a Christian conference in Palm Springs, it is indicative of the fact that Gnosticism has always been a rich person’s game.
Why? First, money affords one the opportunity to wallow in a stimulating philosophy that doesn’t really work in real life. People who make between 20,000 and 50,000 per year with both spouses working do not have time for mysticism and would certainly end up homeless if they stopped long enough to partake in it. Protestantism is the same old song and dance of ancient caste which goes hand in hand with Gnosticism.
The institutional church in general, and the Protestant church in particular, is totally controlled by the rich and powerful. The power is defined by authoritative expertism and elitism; aka, the gnosis. When John MacArthur Jr. and many others host pricy events that exclude the serf class of Christianity by virtue of money alone, nobody even blinks.
So, these congregations are “families” and not caste institutions? Since when do families go on vacations with only part of the family? It’s a valid question; the church is earmarked for pricey events that exclude the church serf class. The only exception is potluck dinners where the serfs do most of the work. In fact, here is a better illustration: in caste societies, the elitist educated class does little work in the same way that pastors are supported by the working serfs.
Moreover, pastorates are cushy elitist jobs occupied by some of the laziest people on earth. Pastors spend most of their time hanging out in their offices reading the latest book by some other Protestant hack, going out to lunch and dinner with other pastors and rich congregants, or attending conferences paid for by the church serf class.
Pastors are little more productive than congressional politicians. I know, I was a Protestant pastor for years and experienced the pastorate culture up close and personal. I remember, while at a conference, hearing one staff pastor laugh about being able to go golfing after long elder meetings while the lay-elders had to go to work the next day, or in essence, that morning. And if I stated the guy’s name here in this post, most readers would know who he is.
As far as studying to show themselves approved, most pastors use canned orthodox outlines. Few professions on earth are more useless.
Like Catholicism, historical geo-economic conditions fail to hinder the building of splendid infrastructure and the lifestyles of elitist priests. This is because the serf class has bought into the ancient idea that salvation comes by approval from those who have the gnosis of Gnosticism. Regardless of financial hardship, God will smile on doing whatever it takes to support His “authority on earth” to the degree that they think they need supporting. Degree of assurance is measured by the degree of self-sacrifice that benefits these lazy self-proclaimed mediators that replace Christ as the only true mediator between God and mankind.
The better way is God’s family meeting as a family in a family home where all are recognized as part of “God’s holy nation of royal priests.” A literal family in a family setting naturally transcends caste elitism. In such an environment, the head needs more of a variety of gifts than the ability to give money because so much money isn’t needed to fund self-proclaimed authority by serial narcissists. This is a family setting dependent upon a fully functioning body that recognizes ONE authority and ONE mediator.
That being Christ, and Him alone. The Solus Christus of the institutional church is a lie, that mantra is only lived out in home fellowships.
paul
Calvinism and the Problem with Perfection
Originally published November 7, 2013
Augustine, Luther, and Calvin were first and foremost Platonists. They integrated the Bible with Platonism. Plato’s theory of forms posits the idea of two worlds; the mutable material world of illusion where reality can only be partially known, and another world where the immutable objective true forms exist. This material world is a shadow world; everything is shadows of the true forms. Therefore, man can only interpret and experience this world subjectively. The tendency is to interpret reality by observing the shadows. To the degree that mankind thinks the material world is reality according to the five senses, subjectivity and chaos will abound.
Therefore, Plato’s ethic was to improve the subjective experience of this life by accessing the true forms through ideas and mathematics—things that transcend the five senses (he believed math was an unchangeable rule and therefore not part of the shadow world). He believed that those who have the capability and willingness to bring more understanding of the objective into the subjective to be an elite minority. These were Plato’s philosopher kings whom he thought should rule society in order to decrease chaos as much as possible. Without philosopher kings, the world would be awash in a sea of subjectivity, everyone living by their own subjective presuppositions based on the shadows of this world. Hence, the arch enemy of the Platonic ideal is individualism.
Plato’s world of true objective forms was his trinity of the true, good, and beautiful. Experiencing the pure form of goodness in this world is impossible—only a shadow of good can be experienced subjectively. Plato’s social engineering has a doctrine, and to the degree that doctrine is applied, a higher quality of subjective existence occurs.
The Reformers put a slightly different twist on this construct. There is no doctrine to apply, only an orthodoxy that focuses on seeing and experiencing. Their version of Plato’s philosopher kings are pastors who possess the power of the keys. Orthodoxy is mediated truth determined by “Divines,” and passed down to the masses for the purpose of experiencing the objective power of the gospel subjectively. The Reformers made the true forms “the gospel,” and reality itself the gospel, ie., the work and personhood of Jesus Christ in particular.
Therefore, in the same way Plato envisioned a society that experiences the power of the true forms subjectively through ideas and immutable disciplines like mathematics, the Reformers sought a heightened subjective experience through a deeper and deeper knowledge of their own true, good, and beautiful—the gospel. And more specifically, instead of the gateway of understanding being reason, ideas, and immutable disciplines, they made the gospel itself the interpretive prism. So: life, history, the Bible, ie., everything, is a tool for experiencing true reality (the gospel) in a higher quality subjectivity. The Bible and all life events are a gospel hermeneutic. Salvation itself is the interpretive prism. All of reality is about redemption. Salvation itself is the universal hermeneutic.
But both constructs have this in common: Pure goodness and perfection cannot exist objectively in the material world. This is where Calvinism and Platonism kiss. The Bible only agrees with this if it is a “gospel narrative.” But if it is God’s full orbed philosophical statement to all men to be interpreted grammatically and exegetically, contradictions abound. To wit, if man possesses goodness and the ability to interpret reality objectively, Platonism and its Reformed children are found wanting. If Reformation orthodoxy is not evaluated biblically with the very theses of its own orthodoxy as a hermeneutic, even more wantonness is found.
The Apostles rejected Platonism because they believed goodness and perfection could indeed be found in this material world. There is no question of the quality of goodness inside of man that enables mankind to interpret reality objectively, the quantity of goodness notwithstanding. In contrast, a dominate theme in the Calvin Institutes is the idea that no person lost or saved can perform a good work. Like Plato’s geometric hermeneutics, the Reformers believed the Law lends understanding to man’s inability to do good because eternal perfection is the standard. The best of man’s works are tainted with sin to some degree, and therefore imperfect. Even if man could perform one perfect work, one sin makes mankind a violator of the whole law. The Reformers were adamant that no person could do any good work whether saved or lost.
Why all the fuss over this point? Why was Calvin dogmatic about this idea to the point of annoyance? Because he was first and foremost a Platonist. The idea that a pure form of good could be found within mankind was metaphysical heresy. Because such contradicts every page of the Bible, the Reformers’ Platonist theology was made the hermeneutic as well. Instead of the interpretation method producing the theology, they made the theology the method of interpretation. If all of reality is redemptive, it must be interpreted the same way.
For the Platonist, the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh poses a huge problem. He is the truth. He came to the material world in a material body. Platonism became Gnosticism and wreaked havoc on the 1st century church. Notice how the first sentences of 1John are a direct pushback against the Gnosticism of that day:
1John 1:1 – That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
Christ is the true, good, and beautiful, and He was touched, felt, seen, heard, and understood. Game over. This is the paramount melding of Plato’s two worlds resulting in a plenary decimation of his philosophy. Nevertheless, Calvin et al got around that by keeping mankind in a subjective realm while making the material world a gospel hermeneutic. Reality still cannot be understood unless it is interpreted by the gospel—everything else is shadows.
Martin Luther took Plato’s two worlds and made them two stories: our own subjective story, a self “glory story” that leads to a labyrinth of subjectivism, or the “cross story” which is the objective gospel. Luther made Plato’s two worlds two stories, but still, they are two realms: one objective and one subjective. In the final analysis mankind is still incompetent, and void of any good whether saved or lost.
Whether the Reformed gospel or Platonism, the infusion of objective goodness is the heresy. Man cannot have any righteousness in and of himself, whether lost or saved. The pushback against this idea can be seen throughout the New Testament. A few examples follow:
1John 2:4 – Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.
1John 2:20 – But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.
1John 2:26 – I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
1John 2:29 – If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.
1John 3:2 – Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[a] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. 4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
Romans 15:14 – I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able to instruct one another.
Christians can know goodness, and perform righteousness objectively. This speaks to the quality of the righteousness when it is performed—it is perfect and acceptable to God. We are not limited to a mere subjective experience in regard to righteousness. When we are resurrected, the quantity thereafter will be 100%, but our present righteousness is acceptable to God when it is performed by us. If it is accepted by God, it is perfect.
Even the unregenerate know good, and can perform it. The works of the law are written on their hearts, and their consciences either accuse or excuse them (Romans 2:12-15). Though enslaved to unrighteousness, they are free to perform righteousness (Romans 6:20). The very goodness of God can be understood from observing creation as well (Romans 1:20).
The only way the Reformers can make all goodness outside of man is to make the Bible a salvation hermeneutic. It is the only way they could integrate the Bible with their Platonist philosophy.
paul
In Regard to Debating Protestants
Protestants, especially those of the Reformed stripe, are the most intellectually dishonest people among men. When it gets right down to it, as someone mentioned just yesterday, any attempt to debate a Protestant is a “fool’s errand.”
Why is this? I think my encounter with John Piper at the 2016 Cross Conference put the reasons on full display.
During an open Q and A session that will be a format unlikely to be repeated at future Neo-Calvinist conferences, I confronted Piper about Calvin’s three categories of election; the non-elect, the temporary elect, and those who persevere, or the permanent elect (Calvin Institutes 3.24).
He had just finished stating his position on predestination in response to a question about lost relatives. His position? Though the thought of relatives spending eternity in hell is agonizing, the fact that God elects some people for salvation should give us hope. Otherwise, there would be no hope that anyone would be saved.
My question to Piper followed immediately after: how can any of us know we are saved when Calvin’s temporary election is considered? His answer follows:
“I don’t know Calvin well enough to answer. I don’t believe there is any such thing as temporary election. So, if he says that I don’t agree with him.”
I then offered to read Calvin’s position on temporary election from the Calvin Institutes. Piper then replied, “You don’t need to read it he’s not my authority.” Problem is, here is what Piper stated in his opening to the Q and A shortly before our exchange:
“So, I am committed to election, predestination, effectual calling, and the whole Calvinistic scheme.”
I called him out on the contradiction: “You referred to the whole Calvinistic scheme like 5 minutes ago.” To which he replied, “Right, the whole scheme of TULIP. The Institutes are 1100 pages and there are lots of them I don’t agree with but let’s just go to the Bible.”
There are several problems to be noted here regarding Piper’s legitimate knowledge of Calvinism while claiming to be one, and his blatant flip-flopping of positions within the same conversation.
First, if people would educate themselves about Piper’s primary mentor, Jonathan Edwards, they would find that Edwards wrote about the joy we will experience in heaven while watching our former family members suffer in hell. Supposedly. While often referring to Edwards as an example of pure genius, Piper seems to feel our agony about condemned relatives. My point? The history of Protestantism’s psychopathic murdering despot forefathers should discredit Protestantism all by itself. Augustine, Luther, and Calvin are held up as heroes of the faith while a cursory observation of history will reveal who they really were.
Secondly, while Piper surprisingly pointed to his lack of knowledge concerning Calvin while claiming to be a Calvinist, he later claimed to be aware of several pages in the Calvin Institutes that he disagrees with. Which is it? Does he know Calvin well, or not well? He stated both in the same conversation.
Thirdly, when called out about saying he is committed to the whole Calvinistic scheme and then rejecting Calvin as an authority, he answered by saying that his statement only referred to TULIP. There are two problems here: TULIP doesn’t represent the whole scheme of Calvinism and TULIP is not from Calvin but rather the Synod of Dort.
Fourthly, during said Q and A, Piper claimed to be an advocate of OSAS concerning the elect, and contended via the Bible that “those who left us where never of us,” or in other words, were never God’s true elect. But Calvin clearly states in the Institutes that the temporary elect are also temporarily “illumined” and suffer a greater damnation than the non-elect accordingly.
Fifthly, while recognizing that he threw Calvin under the bus to save face and quickly claimed to be a Biblicist instead, he proceeded to use the Bible to defend his version of election which includes “effectual calling.” Only problem is, the Bible makes it clear that “many are called but few chosen.” This is the verse that Calvin used to make his case for temporary election. The “called” are the second class of elect who fall away, or the ones temporarily elected and illumined for purposes of suffering a greater damnation for God’s glory, and those who persevere are the permanent elect.
Hence, in fact, and in contrast to the Bible according to Calvin, some of God’s gifts and callings are revoked.
Though Piper denied this in the Q and A, Calvin’s position of temporary election is reflected in the Protestant tradition of supersessionism. This is the idea that Israel was, well, temporarily elected and replaced by the church.
Sixthly, here was my response to Piper’s rejection of temporary election: “And if that’s true, why is ‘final justification’ (a staple Protestant doctrine) future and not present?” To which he replied, “I do believe that justification is present, and will be confirmed in the last day.”
So, if justification is confirmed on the last day, how can he say that “those who left us were never of us”? If they already left us, why would those who didn’t leave us need to be confirmed on the last day? And if they didn’t leave, doesn’t that mean they persevered?
Seventh, while throwing Calvin under the bus and quickly becoming a Biblicist, he denied the clear teaching of Scripture concerning multiple judgments. If justification is “confirmed on the last day,” doesn’t that mean believers and unbelievers all stand at one final judgement? Sure it does; and in fact, that’s Protestant orthodoxy. The huge problem with that follows: CLEARLY, all who stand at that judgement are condemned and judged by the law. This is not only a Piperist propagation of Progressive Justification, but an admission that Protestants are biblically defined as “under law.”
The problem with debating a Protestant is simple: they will continually move the goal posts and redefine terms. Many of their interpretive doctrines have it both ways: “Already, not yet.” “Simultaneously saint and sinner.” “Distinct, but never separate,” and “the paradoxical gospel.”
Therefore, the endeavor to debate a Protestant is indeed a fool’s errand.
paul
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
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