Paul's Passing Thoughts

MacArthur’s “Biblical” Position on Submission to Government: Shapiro / MacArthur Response Excerpt 5; 7 Minutes

Posted in Uncategorized by Paul M. Dohse Sr. on December 19, 2018

13 Responses

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  1. lydia00 said, on December 19, 2018 at 8:29 PM

    This was my original problem with McArthur 20 years ago. I guess as an amateur historian, it stuck out to me more than anything. There is no government by the people in scripture. WE are responsible for government and what it does. McArthur doesn’t believe in human agency or self governing except for philosopher kings like himself.

    Great point about the Reformation! JMac should repudiate the disobedient to church state gov of the RCC.

    Great book that touches on the historical trajectory of state church to the “logos” of the first amendment is Leonard Verduin’s, Anatomy of a Hybrid. He is one of those obscure scholars from another era that needs to be read.

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    • Argo said, on December 21, 2018 at 9:52 AM

      Yes, protestant hypocrisy with respect to the Catholic church is a great point that as far as I know has only ever been prominently asserted within the TANC group. We see this hypocrisy played out often on a miniature scale when protestant churches split (which is as common as flies in August). People sing praises to their own moral and intellectual incompetence, then all of a sudden feel justified in leaving their church over some perceived pastoral injustice. And when you tell them that all they have done is made themselves twice the hypocrite of the people who stayed, they look at you like you’re the devil. I swear, the church really IS little more than mass psychosis.

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      • Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on December 21, 2018 at 12:11 PM

        And who can refute the historical fact that the Catholic Church was the first authority? But it’s celebrated if someone leaves one for the other in both camps. Yes. mass psychosis indeed.

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  2. Argo said, on December 21, 2018 at 3:26 PM

    Right, Paul. I think that’s why the Reformation is often couched in “people’s revolution” type terms. Hard to sell protestantism if you describe it as merely an arbitrary exchange of masters.

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  3. lydia00 said, on December 22, 2018 at 7:54 PM

    I could never get past the “state church” concept for either. My time discussing theology online for 12 years has shown me that most people from pastors to pew sitters rarely gave that aspect of “state” church a second thought. It boggles. But it is the recipe for the increasing authoritarianism we have seen. “Regressive” Christians don’t even recognize their SJW sin sniffing virtue signaling as a form of authoritarianism. But it is.

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  4. Argo said, on December 24, 2018 at 6:46 PM

    The issue I’m wrestling with is the question of how salvation is possible if one accepts protestant doctrine. Without getting to mired in the details of the nature of salvation, as it were, it seems clear to me that the protestant church is a guilt-mongering institution that makes virtue out of human moral failure (i.e. the holiest person is not he who chooses and engages in doing and promoting the good, but he who recognizes that he can’t actually do any good at all). I would think that in order to be acceptable before God one would either have to reject this doctrine, or, at the very least, act in spite of it—pay it lip service but manifest behavior practicality contrary to it (whatever that looks like). I feel like many, many Christians should be way more worried than they are about the condition of their souls. And how long can you go on despising yourself and everyone else for a perpetual sin nature before there’s no turning back and your heart is just a shriveled, blackened husk?

    Is it possible that those in the Church are in the greatest need of evangelizing? Oh man, the irony. lol

    Liked by 1 person

    • Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on December 25, 2018 at 8:19 AM

      Because of the American Revolution and Enlightenment ideas that are closer to the gospel of justification by new birth, many in the church are confused enough about the gospel to be saved. However, authentic Protestant soteriology is not only a false gospel, but refutes the true gospel and antagonizes it at every point. The Protestant gospel is a plenary antithesis to the Bible. So, unequivocally, the church is a major missionary field at most, and an endeavor to save confused Christians from losing their eternal rewards at least. The Protestant church is like the WWF where wrestlers act like they hate each other to entertain the ignorant, but go out and enjoy a couple of beers together after the show. In the same way, the Protestant church is a demonic masterpiece of dark sarcasm.

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    • Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on December 25, 2018 at 12:38 PM

      As I said to a friend on Facebook just the other day, there are a lot of non-christians who act more “christian” than most christians!

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      • Argo said, on December 25, 2018 at 2:13 PM

        I have never had a non-Christian completely reject me simply because I didn’t agree with their ideology. They’ve rejected me for being a dick (sorry for the profanity…but it’s appropriate), lol, but not for disagreeing with their definition of God.

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    • lydia00 said, on December 26, 2018 at 4:59 PM

      “Is it possible that those in the Church are in the greatest need of evangelizing? Oh man, the irony.”

      My mom made this point before she died. She said the church is actually a big mission field.

      the only thing I say the Protestants anymore when the subject comes up does that I believe in Free Will and responsibility. they freaked out falling all over themselves to say they agree with the same thing. But they don’t. They have plenty of excuses for their wrongdoing. They are sinners, totally depraved, unable and even have mixed motives! (Whatever that means)

      The only thing they are telling me is that they have absolutely no self-control and absolutely no way of knowing themselves. that only makes me want to lock up the children and hide the silver if they come over.

      You see they can ruin lives and all they have to do is say sorry cuz they are sinners. It’s a sort of cruel Grace.

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  5. craigolson001 said, on January 12, 2019 at 9:18 AM

    It is very difficult to follow your argument. I am not even sure what you are saying. Can you put your own beliefs about Christianity in a few simple words? What do you believe about the authority of Scripture and its sufficiency for salvation? What do you believe about the new birth? How does it take place and what does it mean? Who is Christ and what is the nature of His work? How does He relate to Father and Holy Spirit? etc.

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    • Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on January 15, 2019 at 3:25 PM

      Did you accidently post on the wrong article? I don’t see how the arguments made in the video would be “difficult to follow.” So, if you are unable to follow the arguments in the video, you are so dumbed down by church that I don’t know that I can be of help to you. And you want me to answer your 5 questions “in a few simple words”? At any rate, here is your simple answer: unlike the justification by faith alone false gospel of Protestantism and its denial of a biblical new birth, I believe that righteousness is infused into the believer and believers are righteous as a state of being, not merely “declared” righteous via a “legal declaration” that is obviously not apart from the law. I believe that Scripture informs us that the law is not for justification but for love in sanctification. And I doubt your authority is the Bible, but rather what evangelical philosopher kings say the Bible says.

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      • Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on January 15, 2019 at 4:51 PM

        Not to mention the fact that all of his questions have already been discussed at length here at PPT. So if he wanted answers, all he would have to do is simply search the blog to find out what we believe about this and that.

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