Paul's Passing Thoughts

Good

Posted in Uncategorized by Paul M. Dohse Sr. on December 20, 2017

6 Responses

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  1. John said, on December 20, 2017 at 10:31 AM

    Of course, we reject total depravity because we reject a false, demonic gospel (Galatians 1:8).

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  2. Ken B said, on December 20, 2017 at 5:58 PM

    What do you mean by total depravity? My understanding of it is that it means no part of our lives, our conduct and thinking, has not been affected by sin.

    It does not mean an unbeliever never does anything good, nor that everyone is as bad as they could possibly be, or must have broken every law God ever made.

    It also does not carry on after conversion, as total depravity is countered with total salvation – there is no part of our life that is not cleansed from sin when we believe. “The vilest offender who truly believes … “. We really are new creations in Christ, the old has gone. We really have put off the old man and put on the new.

    I have gained the impression, rightly or wrongly, that a section of American evangelicalism maintains you carry on being totally depraved after conversion, and should continue to regard yourself has having the status before God as sinner. Worm theology. I think this is false. We are sons and saints, but not yet made perfect, i.e. there remains the battle between the Spirit and the flesh.

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  3. Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on December 21, 2017 at 7:49 AM

    Ken,
    The orthodox understanding of total depravity has its roots in ancient pagan philosophies which began with the premise that man was fundamentally/existentially flawed and therefore disqualified from being able to discern truth, thus being unable to take action for good. It was Plato who developed a full-orbed philosophical statement around this assumption. Plotinus rediscovered Plato and successfully integrated his philosophy into Christianity, and eventually Augustine based his doctrine of total depravity from Plotinus. In short, total depravity is NOT a Christian doctrine, neither is it Biblical.

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  4. Ken B said, on December 22, 2017 at 7:45 AM

    Andy – thanks for the reply. This is yet another area where the church needs to get “de-Greeced” in its thinking!

    I think the nearest you get to total depravity in the NT itself is the metaphor of being dead in trespasses and sins. When you are dead, all of you is dead. But it is a metaphor, and I for one do not wish to add Greek philosophical thinking to the bible. This is undoubtedly true of too much overly cerebral calvinism!

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  5. Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on December 22, 2017 at 7:56 AM

    HA! “De-Greeced”…Love it!

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  6. Ken B said, on December 22, 2017 at 5:46 PM

    I’m afraid De-Greeced is not my invention, I’ve heard David Pawson use it a lot, especially when dealing with calvinism. It imposes logic on the bible where Hebrew thinking is more content to live with paradoxes. It also imposes a linear time scale way of thinking whereas Hebrews were more interested in what happened and not so much the order in which it happened. Hence the chronology of the gospels is less important than the sayings and events. Also important in the ‘two’ creation accounts, which Greek thinking sees as contradictory.

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