Paul's Passing Thoughts

Ken Ham Clueless on Millennials’ Mass-Exodus from Church

Posted in Uncategorized by Andy Young, PPT contributing editor on September 27, 2017

Scripture can only be accepted as an “authority” insofar as it is rational to believe it and those presenting it do so in a rationally consistent manner. You cannot accept “authority” simply for authority’s sake. Muslims believe their Koran is an “authority” just as much as Christians believe the Bible is an “authority”. So then how does one determine what “authority” is the correct one? There must be an objective standard other than simply an appeal to “authority”. The institutional church has failed miserably in providing such a rational objective standard, and that is why the current generation is rejecting it out of hand.

~ Andy

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14 Responses

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  1. John said, on September 27, 2017 at 2:34 PM

    Your response to Ham is perfect, Andy. Good on you, brother. Ham’s tweet comes from this article (in the fourth paragraph) way back in January.

    https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2017/01/01/igniting-new-reformation-2017/

    There’s no way I’m joining Ham’s “new reformation” (it looks more like an AIG fundraising drive the longer the article goes on) or a “return to Scripture” as the Deformers did. Ham knows nada about the real reformation, as is evident in his article (nobody who is compos mentis will endorse Luther), and really, anyone who promotes anything to do with that evil Calvinist/Reformed lot is not on my list for anything. Also, I don’t need to visit his museum to know the truth. Years ago, Calvinists did not know what to do with Ham: support him or not. Things might have changed in the interim; I don’t care one way or another. The strange thing is that in Protestantism, it is man’s word that is the “authority.” I hope Ham gets your message, Andy.

    And I am delighted that there is a “generational loss” from the “church” for obvious reasons: a) maybe these lost ones will find the true God now, being away from the lies and deceit; b) hopefully their absence will hasten the end of the evil that is Calvinism/Reformed Nonsense/Protestantism, as their money will no longer be poured into Protestant deceivers’ money bags; c) the “church” Ham is alluding to is not the body of believers and so trying to get people back to church is like trying to handing people over to demonic powers that crave authority and power; d) anything to keep precious souls away from the institutionalized church and subsequently away from abuse in all its wonderful flavors.

    Ham should first learn about the Reformation and the devils behind it before he makes any “calls.” And the call he makes should be for the lost to accept God’s gift of salvation through the person of Jesus Christ, not a call to go back to church. To the rest of us, he has nothing to say, unless he encourages, loves, and speaks the Biblical truth. Sigh, going to church does not save (contrary to the devil Calvin’s godless lies).

    I hope those who are staying away from “church” use the intelligence God has given them and seek the truth. They will find it. Jesus is not me; He does not have moods, and He will not chase them away but embrace them as they call and believe on the name of the Lord Jesus. Guaranteed.

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  2. Susan said, on September 27, 2017 at 4:17 PM

    Why are people (young people especially) leaving the institutional church? Where would one begin to count the ways? Maybe they figure out that they are being made into merchandise. Maybe they figure out that the church is not offering anything that they can’t get elsewhere (i.e., a volunteer activity with the food pantry or a 5K run or big brothers/ big sisters, or walking the dogs at the animal shelter, etc.). Maybe superficial and shallow isn’t worth getting up early on a Sunday morning for. Maybe they don’t want what the pastor is selling them. Maybe they see that the church is not all that different than the world, or that the church has become the world, so really, what’s the point? Maybe they don’t like to be “baited and switched”. Maybe the don’t like being a mark, target, project or whatever else. Maybe love-bombing isn’t as effective as it used to be. Maybe the church has become Amway and that pyramid scheme only has a shelf life of two to three years (if that).

    Maybe …. maybe …. maybe

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    • John said, on September 27, 2017 at 6:44 PM

      Susan, young intelligent people (they are all intelligent; I think so) are leaving because they are smelling the fake. I did when I was young; when I was 17, I flipped the Calvinist/Reformed church a huge unholy bird. And it felt good. Maybe these souls are doing the same, but, Susan, let’s pray they find Jesus; forget the church.
      Also, they are being controlled and with all the info on the Internet, it’s not so easy anymore to be controlled and FORCED what do think and do. Calvinism’s deathly secrets are now out in the open. May it bury the darn thing for good.

      I spot some evangelizing work for us; bring it on. Let’s bring the “generationally” lost souls to where they belong . . . in God’s family, sins killed off, gone, no more, condemnation gone.

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      • Susan said, on September 27, 2017 at 10:12 PM

        I fear that is the problem John. When folks leave, I think the tendency is to leave both the institutional church and the Lord. If I weren’t absolutely convinced about the truth of Christianity I would have left both and it is only by God’s grace that I am still a disciple and still belong to him. Otherwise, I swear I would be an atheist. I think the progression is from Catholicism to Protestantism to Modernism to Atheism.

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    • John said, on September 28, 2017 at 8:12 AM

      Susan, I understand exactly what you mean (when I flipped ’em the unholy bird, I was accused of the very same thing . . . in 1980. “You’re leaving the Lord, you heathen!”). The problem is that the institutionalized church does not represent Jesus Christ of the Bible, but it represents some weird caricature, which has distorted and evil characteristics and a God that is vengeful and hates everyone and whom everyone apparently hates too, whether you know it or not.

      This is where you and I and the fine folks here at PPT and other like-minded ones around the world (oh, there are many) can make a difference: by explaining that the strange sovereign gawt Protestantism (Calvinism and Reformed Nonsense, in particular) is blabbering on about is NOT (sorry, slight scream) the God of the Bible. Yes, many who leave, think that God is awful and He just waits for you to put a foot wrong so He (the weird Calvinist god) can send all ten plagues and diarrhea your way. But He is just the opposite, as you know.

      Interesting progression; I think you’re onto something, “I think the progression is from Catholicism to Protestantism to Modernism to Atheism.”

      Blessings, and please continue to proclaim the truth. What else can we do? Oh, and pray, of course.

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      • Susan said, on September 28, 2017 at 9:14 AM

        Yes, yes, and yes. I am not at all certain how many like-minded folks there are. I am not as optimistic as you. Among my circle, I have one friend and her husband who “get it”– really get it. There is no getting through to the others. Not all of the churches have the Calvinist Reformed god. Some of them have taken the exact opposite stance of love and mercy and anything goes. Love and tolerance, unity and inclusiveness. The problem: tolerance does not abide absolute unchanging truth (God) because that truth is “intolerant”.

        It is the same coin — only the other side of the coin.

        When I walked away from that Reformed Baptist Church, I thought, “I could be an atheist. I really could.” They all loved, loved, loved John Piper. Mindlessness and double-speak know no limits. I was asking questions: what is truth? can it be known? what happens when there is “conflicting truth”? then whose “truth” is “truth”? And what it really came down to was “our truth is truth” and “everyone else’s truth that isn’t our truth isn’t truth” and “isn’t it obvious that our truth is truth?” “what’s wrong with you that you don’t see it?”

        No, it isn’t obvious and you haven’t made your case. And there is nothing wrong with me for disagreeing.

        I know I am onto something about that progression: Catholicism, then Protestantism, then Modernism, and then finally Atheism. If you reflect on your experiences, isn’t that exactly what is happening in the “Christian world”?

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      • Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on September 28, 2017 at 10:01 AM

        “Among my circle, I have one friend and her husband who “get it”– really get it. There is no getting through to the others.”

        There is a good reason for this. I’m sure that among those who don’t “get it” there are many who actually DO get it, but that means they have to face several realities:

        1> Ego investment. So much of themselves has been invested in a lie. To acknowledge that they “get it” mean they have to admit that they were duped. As irrational as it is, as long as they don’t acknowledge it then it doesn’t exist. Out of sight, out of mind.

        2> It requires them to take action. If they were brave enough to overcome their own egos, it would then require a tremendous amount of thinking on their part, and too many people don’t want to work that hard. It is much easier to just keep doing what they have always been doing.

        3> They intuitively believe that their salvation is vested in church attendance. They will not say this outright, in fact they will deny it vehemently. But the reality is that they cannot imagine life without church. Or they are too worried about what their other “christian” friends will think about them. After all, if the church is wrong, then they have to face the possibility that they might not be really saved after all. (see ego investment)

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      • John said, on September 28, 2017 at 10:39 AM

        Susan, the anything-goes-god is just as fake and dangerous as its opposite. I am not an optimistic bubble (Joyce Meyer and Beth Moore are my favorites…not) or into motivational one-liner nonsense. I am frustrated just as you are, but I have been blessed (cursed?) with talking in a straight tongue (as you’ve been too, right?) which have brought me many awkward but delicious situations. But guess what? Sometimes people ask questions, and when that happens, it’s a good sign. It means they are actually starting to think.

        Where I live (down south somewhere), the two poles rule (the anything, and I mean anything goes “god” who takes you as you are and then leaves you as you are because you are the apple of his eye as you are blah-blah, and the monster Calvinist creature god). There is a middle, a remnant, if you wish. And I am happy to see more people seeing the light than ten years ago (hence the huge push from Reformed circles). Have you seen how many conferences and blog sites they have? A conference every week, and with the mentally crippled reformation500 madness a month away, they are physically going into spasms . . . but there’s no Jesus, no New Birth, no common sense, no love, no discernment. Isn’t that simply sad?

        I’m with you, Susan. Hold on, dear sis.

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  3. Susan said, on September 27, 2017 at 7:04 PM

    It gives me such comfort to know that there are people out there who get it. There are “Christians” in my circle who are simply clueless. “Jesus just wants us to be happy.” “It’s finally time that the church is catching up with the times.” “As long as you go to church and you’ve said that magic prayer — well then, everything is going to be fine, just fine — it doesn’t really matter what you believe.” “Christians” are actually saying these sorts of things.

    When I try to say something to them ….. well, I might as well beat my head against a brick wall …. seriously.

    I don’t know what it is: lack of critical thinking skills, intellectual laziness, complacency, lack of Bible literacy, brainwashing, familiarity and comfort in a community, what! Sometimes I feel like a fish out of water. At times I wonder if I am a negative Nelly — is it as bad as I think it is apostasy-wise? Then I think, I don’t agree with most anyone these days in a religious sense. Can they all be wrong? (Yes, they can all be wrong! And they are!)

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  4. Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on September 27, 2017 at 8:39 PM

    You all should see the replies I’m getting in response to my comment. It makes me shake my head.

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    • John said, on September 28, 2017 at 7:08 AM

      Andy, I bet that a great number of those who have replied to you have no idea what you meant in your reply. They think you are anti-Christian, I bet. How dare you speak against an authority? Ha!

      And Susan, my head feels the same as yours; you’re not alone! Your last paragraph is on the money; it’s all those things and more. You’re not negative Nelly; you’re simply free from the chains. Hey, once the institutionalized church and its man-made rubbish have its claws into one, it’s very hard to admit one is wrong. Pride puffs up heads, Susan. It’s a wonder Calvinists and the lot can still fit into their Hummers and condos.

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  5. Susan said, on September 27, 2017 at 10:56 PM

    Andy, It is almost as if there is a spirit of madness or delusion that has descended upon people. It is a fog of confusion. They cannot see their hands held up in front of their faces. I don’t know what to say anymore. Yes, I am shaking my head too. Susan

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  6. Andy Young, PPT contributing editor said, on September 28, 2017 at 7:45 AM

    If anyone has a Facebook account, you can see the post here along with my whole conversation thread.

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    • John said, on September 28, 2017 at 8:22 AM

      At least the one woman was sorta getting it, Andy. The rest, as I thought, did not understand what you originally had said. (I don’t have F/book), I simply clicked on the “f” above and it took me to the comments. Now my head is shaking too. Huh?

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