Christianity and Islam: The Pot Calling the Kettle Black?
Many relate to my personal testimony; despite my best efforts, I have been for the most part at odds with church. Julia Duin noted in her book Quitting Church that she has always sensed that something is fundamentally wrong with the Evangelical church.
I wonder if that mysterious fundamental reason has come to light. Note this statement by Al Mohler, arguably the most influential Evangelical of our day:
Niebuhr’s fifth model is where he seems to be pointing us, that is, to Christ the transformer of culture. These are the conversionists, and they are far more hopeful than the dualists. They understand the distinction between Christ and the culture, but they also understand that it is the mission of the church to transform the culture with the claims of Christ. We continually hear this kind of language: “Let’s go out and redeem the culture. Let’s go out and conquer the culture in the name of Christ. Let’s transform every dimension of the culture, whether the media and the arts, or business and finance, and let’s subdue them to the claims of Christ. Let’s have a more Christian military and a more Christian realm of arts.” This leads to a very progressive impulse, one which looks to a better world and a better condition if we will only do this. It promises transformation, hopes for cultural redemption, and leads to Christian activism. (Preaching the Cross: chapter 3, subheading; Niebuhr’s Treatment of Christ and Cutler, Niebuhr’s fifth model).
What a minute. Is this not the exact same vision as Islam? Moreover, do Muslims understand this better than most Christians? When Christian missionaries travel abroad, are they perceived this way whether they know it or not? When we hear of Christian missionaries being murdered or detained for “conspiracy to overthrow the state,” we immediately assume that’s a crock. Well, maybe not when you consider what the Crusades were all about coupled with this contemporary dominion mentality among leading Evangelicals.
Furthermore, Al Mohler is far from being the only one propagating these ideas. This same idea is the theses of Paul David Tripp’s book Broken-Down House. Many examples could be given, but I will not belabor the point past the following notation by blogger Joel Taylor:
While filming a promo in Dubai (UAE) for the new student missions conference, CROSS, John Piper (standing in front of the Burj Khalifa tower) makes this statement:
“And that tower and this city are coming down!”
Was that a wise thing to say while standing on United Arab Emirates soil? I wonder how the Arab people would understand his remark if they saw this?
It probably wouldn’t surprise them. The American church was founded on the Reformation, and many of its European stalwarts had their own standing armies. And ok, we have much spiritual tyranny and a divine right of kings mentality in the church today; ya think? If they muse about bringing down the Burj Khalifa tower what do you think they will do to you if you ask too many questions?
So this explains everything. It’s really not about the gospel. It’s not about making disciples, it’s about globalism. Making “disciples” is not the primary goal, it’s only a small part of a much larger vision. The whole idea that people can only find salvation in the “local church” is the ploy that funds the global vision while Christians believe it’s about the gospel. We are encouraged to bring people to church to get them saved for that very reason. It also brings to mind all of the hoopla about “lone rangers” who are not “under the authority” of a local church.
Do I think this clarifies the mission of home fellowships? Absolutely; do you want to make disciples? Or do you want to fund world dominion? Christ’s mandate to the assemblies was to make as many disciples as possible before Christ returns. Why? Because He is not calling on Christians to renovate the earth—He is going to come back and blow up the whole thing and start over.
This is a short post, but one that opens up a very wide avenue of considerations. “There is no perfect church”: that’s not the issue; the issue is the fundamental mandate. That’s not merely a question of perfection, but the difference between eternal investment or a complete waste of time and money.
paul
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
Reblogged this on Clearcreek Chapel Watch.
LikeLike
“Claim” as in “stake a claim.” Christ’s claim on the earth.
LikeLike
Mohler commenting on the Niebuhr quote:
“This leads to a very progressive impulse, one which looks to a better world and a better condition if we will only do this. It promises transformation, hopes for cultural redemption, and leads to Christian activism.”
This is how the Puritans thought, too, when they were focused on developing such a culture. And most of them were in agreement and voluntarily signed on and still that sort of “flat” theology did not last. The Founders were NOT Puritanical thinkers.
All one has to do is read John Cotton’s treatise on why it is godly to wipe out entire Indian tribes if they won’t sell their land to the Puritans.. It was also considered heresy to try and alleviate pain in childbearing which is why some women were burned at the stake for trying to help women with taht pain. And should we mention the burning of Quaker heretics? That is where such thinking leads.
And worse, would, Mohler’s idea of redeeming Christian art be such as the idolatrous stained glass windows of SBC/CR leaders recently installed in SWBTS’ chapel?
And yes, what Piper, Mohler and all their fellow travellors are promoting goes well with Islamic thinking. Why is it that people cannot believe that heinous tyranny could not happen again? The gas chambers are not ancient history. And their idol is Calvin who loved power and used it to control and hurt many people….In the Name of God, of course. But that IS their god. Their determinist god.
Piper standing before that tower? Think of some Imam standing before a huge mega church here saying the same thing: This mega church and this city are coming down.
Allah Akbar
LikeLike
Uh, that is in fact a crime in the US–as I am sure it is there as well. What Piper did was an outright crime which is partly why the video was pulled down.
LikeLike
I have always sensed in my heart that there is something fundamentally wrong with the statement, “there is no perfect church”, but I had never been able to put my finger on it. Then the other day it struck me like a light bulb going on in my head. Whenever someone makes that statement, it reveals their true belief about what they think the “church” really is. First, is shows that they believe that christians are still totally depraved, because if we’re still totally depraved then we can’t really expect to find perfection in the church. But secondly, it reveales their belief about what the church is to them. To say there is no perfect church implies that there are a plurality of “churches”, or that the “church” is actually a “place” or an “institution” and not the Body of Christ. Such a statement is really slanderous against Christ because it suggests that Christ has a Body that is not perfect. But Scripture clearly teaches that we are a new creation. We have God’s seed which cannot sin. The old man was crucifed with Christ and is dead. The new man is alive and perfect. In reality, the “church”, being Christ’s Body, IS perfect because its members have been made perfect in the righteousness of God!
LikeLike
Right, we can’t be deemed imperfect because of our mortality. We have God’s seed within us–that makes us perfect. The deeds done in the body will be burned up while the works of our redeemed heart will receive its reward.
LikeLike
Every missionary going overseas must consider how they are being perceived because of this nonsense.
LikeLike
“I have always sensed in my heart that there is something fundamentally wrong with the statement, “there is no perfect church”, but I had never been able to put my finger on it. ”
Me too. And I heard it almost daily around the seeker mega world among staff. It sounded like a brag. As if that is a good thing. But it was only an excuse for wrong behaviors.
But I began to question what they were defining as “perfection”. What would that look like? (most have not thought about it but would automatically say, “Like Jesus”! Ok, well let’s take a look at what Jesus was like here)
It is an interesting exercise to discuss it from that pov because you come to the same conclusion from another angle: they are using Total depravity as an excuse and promoting false teaching that we can never really be new creatures in Christ here and now
And this is why most churches are not safe places. We should start believing them when they brag about their imperfections and future sinning that will be “covered” by Jesus. They simply have a ready made excuse for whatever they want to do against others.
LikeLike
Immel has a great line about this in his book. I am really busy right now so I hope someone will post it.
LikeLike
“Every missionary going overseas must consider how they are being perceived because of this nonsense”
I agree. And the danger he could put some of them in chills me. Of course, Piper is at the Dubai Hilton and then flying home. So why would he care. He made his film, all the YRR preacher boys are thrilled. And they will grow up to be just as immature a charlatan as Piper who was weaned on Bob Jones U thinking.
LikeLike
Ya, and my precious family members are missionaries overseas–makes me not happy that they could be put in harms way because of this stuff. .
LikeLike
“Uh, that is in fact a crime in the US–as I am sure it is there as well. What Piper did was an outright crime which is partly why the video was pulled down.”
So Piper did not mean what he said on the video? Or perhaps he is a coward? If he believes what he said, why not keep it up and take the consequences like a real manly man? He is always extolling on about manly men. I bet he got scared. Muslims are determinists, too, you know.
So all that expense for what? Because he does not think it through before he filmed it?
Why is it people cannot see through that man and what a shallow charlatan he really is?
LikeLike