How revealing it is that those who would call themselves “Calvinist” all answered most of those questions with a “no”, thus giving themselves away to the fact that they do NOT really know what Calvin actually taught! (Yet these are the same people who would accuse US of not really understanding Calvinism.)
Yea… this is a study in watching people hear what they want to hear, and believing what they want to believe and pretty much punting mutually exclusive theological positions into the vast sea of God’s mystery so they don’t have to resolve the conflict.
These kids are in fact much more in line with Wesleyan doctrine than Calvin but they have yet to really listen to the preachers they hold in high regard. So they default to whatever they (subjectively ) want to believe. OR maybe better said they presume the right to determine their own doctrine fully ignoring the fact that the Neo Calvinist leaders express in forbidding such independent rational license.
paulspassingthoughts said, on December 29, 2013 at 7:05 PM
Wait til you see some of the other interviews. Pretty amazing. But some of the youth were there for further investigation. One answered, “On the way to being a Calvinist, but not there yet.” We definitely slowed the trip down for him. Others just stared at the handbills in disbelief assuming that we wouldn’t be out there saying what we were saying if we couldn’t back it up. My favorite was passing out the handbills in the restaurant where there was standing room only while some of the speakers could only watch. Dude, if looks could kill.
paulspassingthoughts said, on December 30, 2013 at 8:45 AM
John.
Ugh, there is soooo much we learned and confirmed in all of this, but you note something that must not be lost: the use of paradox to make the dots connect anyway you want them to.
Awesome Paul! Your delivery was excellent and precise.
I will be definitely ordering your book and get some tracts from you, for my husband and I will be getting involved with young adults as soon as we move (we are in limbo at the moment).
Thank you Paul for being a servant of the Lords.
You back up your theology with hard cold action. I admire your determinism and your guts! It is so nice to see them being the ones fumbling for answers for a change. In SGM normally it was people like us with our backs to a wall. LOL
But, seriously. I pray for their sakes that they come away with ideas vastly different than what they thought they would hear.
paulspassingthoughts said, on December 30, 2013 at 8:17 AM
Argo, Thank you. We are hoping to take this same mission to Minneapolis for the Vine pastors conference. We want to pose these same questions to the pastors.
It’s interesting to watch how open someone is to a mere discussion of an opposing view of their belief. I’ve been in those shoes before. But opposing views enable us to think & cause our beliefs to grow stronger. Otherwise, they are quite fragile, not able to withstand anything other than complete agreement (which then gives birth to spiritual tyranny).
From the horse’s mouth quotes may be rejected without thought, but they are certainly hard to argue with.
It is easy to sit & listen. But pray they, out of love for God, themselves & others… will think & drive after the answers themselves, without stopping until they satisfy themselves. The Bible says, if you seek, you will find. Matthew 7. There must be effort/work/action & it then results in reward. No resting, no experiencing.
Just saw an awesome Craftsman Tool commercial. There are parallels here. Of course, this is coming from the girl that got a Kreg Pocket Hole Jig for her birthday this year. 😉
Reblogged this on Clearcreek Chapel Watch.
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How revealing it is that those who would call themselves “Calvinist” all answered most of those questions with a “no”, thus giving themselves away to the fact that they do NOT really know what Calvin actually taught! (Yet these are the same people who would accuse US of not really understanding Calvinism.)
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Paul,
That was so great.
And it isn’t presumptuous. You are entirely correct: it is a FACT that Calvin would answer all seven questions “yes”.
Well done. I am loving this.
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hey man… you link to the video below is not opening.
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oh… I was wrong … it doesn’t open in the email… but if you go to your web site it opens.
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Yea… this is a study in watching people hear what they want to hear, and believing what they want to believe and pretty much punting mutually exclusive theological positions into the vast sea of God’s mystery so they don’t have to resolve the conflict.
These kids are in fact much more in line with Wesleyan doctrine than Calvin but they have yet to really listen to the preachers they hold in high regard. So they default to whatever they (subjectively ) want to believe. OR maybe better said they presume the right to determine their own doctrine fully ignoring the fact that the Neo Calvinist leaders express in forbidding such independent rational license.
LikeLike
Wait til you see some of the other interviews. Pretty amazing. But some of the youth were there for further investigation. One answered, “On the way to being a Calvinist, but not there yet.” We definitely slowed the trip down for him. Others just stared at the handbills in disbelief assuming that we wouldn’t be out there saying what we were saying if we couldn’t back it up. My favorite was passing out the handbills in the restaurant where there was standing room only while some of the speakers could only watch. Dude, if looks could kill.
LikeLike
John.
Ugh, there is soooo much we learned and confirmed in all of this, but you note something that must not be lost: the use of paradox to make the dots connect anyway you want them to.
LikeLike
Awesome Paul! Your delivery was excellent and precise.
I will be definitely ordering your book and get some tracts from you, for my husband and I will be getting involved with young adults as soon as we move (we are in limbo at the moment).
Thank you Paul for being a servant of the Lords.
LikeLike
Paul,
You back up your theology with hard cold action. I admire your determinism and your guts! It is so nice to see them being the ones fumbling for answers for a change. In SGM normally it was people like us with our backs to a wall. LOL
But, seriously. I pray for their sakes that they come away with ideas vastly different than what they thought they would hear.
LikeLike
Argo, Thank you. We are hoping to take this same mission to Minneapolis for the Vine pastors conference. We want to pose these same questions to the pastors.
LikeLike
It’s interesting to watch how open someone is to a mere discussion of an opposing view of their belief. I’ve been in those shoes before. But opposing views enable us to think & cause our beliefs to grow stronger. Otherwise, they are quite fragile, not able to withstand anything other than complete agreement (which then gives birth to spiritual tyranny).
From the horse’s mouth quotes may be rejected without thought, but they are certainly hard to argue with.
It is easy to sit & listen. But pray they, out of love for God, themselves & others… will think & drive after the answers themselves, without stopping until they satisfy themselves. The Bible says, if you seek, you will find. Matthew 7. There must be effort/work/action & it then results in reward. No resting, no experiencing.
Just saw an awesome Craftsman Tool commercial. There are parallels here. Of course, this is coming from the girl that got a Kreg Pocket Hole Jig for her birthday this year. 😉
LikeLike