Paul's Passing Thoughts

It’s Official: The World Knows More About Justice Than Calvinists

Posted in Uncategorized by Paul M. Dohse Sr. on December 5, 2013

8 Responses

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  1. Kevin said, on December 5, 2013 at 12:45 PM

    I came across your blog but have no idea what you are ranting about. What does Calvinism have to do with this story? What are we all missing because you are not making anything clear. Thanks.

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    • paulspassingthoughts said, on December 5, 2013 at 1:06 PM

      My audience is privy to the SGM sexual abuse case, and the ABWE cover-up. I primarily write to those who are privy to these issues. That’s my audience. I don’t have time to write long prerequisites to everyone who may stop by.

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  2. Kevin said, on December 5, 2013 at 2:36 PM

    Ok, makes sense. So, you’re saying that the people involved with this case are part of SGM and they have covered this whole thing up? I’m no fan of SGM from everything I’ve read about them. No place in the Body Of Christ for stuff like this.

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    • paulspassingthoughts said, on December 5, 2013 at 3:06 PM

      Steubenville is the world thing. Steubenville is a big football town here in Ohio. The high school football players are town celebrities. Some of them raped a girl at a party and some of the town tried to cover it up. The case broke and many held accountable because of everyday citizens. Wish I could say the same for everyday parishioners who still give their money to those who continue to cover-up SGM and ABWE. That’s the point.

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  3. A Mom said, on December 6, 2013 at 2:21 AM

    Calvinism excuses bad behavior (like that in SGM) with reasons like total depravity, inability, etc. And hierarchy, submission, protecting the “gospel”, being under with pastor over is big in Calvinist churches. If God didn’t choose you, you deserve hell & are going there no matter what.

    These are ironically the same reasons & logic some parents in Steubenville used to support the perps: what’s the big deal, these boys are superstars, exposing the truth hurts the town as a whole, the girl deserved it, calling her a slut or less-than, etc.

    There are numerous parallels. Yet everyday citizens knew right from wrong, got involved & fought for justice. How many supposed Christians are doing the same with SGM & ABWE? These types of situations & the lack of concern & involvement accurately gauge how cold or lukewarm American Christians really are. When unbelievers have more love for truth & right & protecting/getting justice for the innocent than Christians do, we should all be alarmed. It’s time for repentance & turning toward right action.

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  4. Kevin said, on December 6, 2013 at 1:27 PM

    “A mom”:
    Sorry, can’t really agree with you on your take on Calvinism. Boy, SGM must be awful because they are giving true Calvinism a bad name. I have never heard any calvinist make an excuse for bad behavior, just the opposite. Calvinism hold to both God’s sovereignty and Mans responsibility.

    Calvinism isn’t to blame for Stuebenville, it’s sin. It’s the love of football and power and family. Has nothing to do with the philosophy of Calvinism. You may think it does because of SGM and all that, but not my experience at all. Christians aren’t getting involved because of Calvinism, it’s because of their own selfish pride and sin. Churches that don’t even know of Calvinism have scandal and issues all the time.

    I’m just not following the logic here. I see what you guys are “trying” to do but it’s not working. I’m sorry for your experiences with SGM and ABWE but don’t make every Calvinist to be like them. As a matter fact, most Calvinist I know, don’t even know about SGM and I don’t even know what ABWE is.

    Pride and selfishness is what causes then abuses, not Calvinism. And Pride and Selfishness has been around alot longer than John Calvin.

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  5. A Mom said, on December 9, 2013 at 12:53 AM

    Kevin, That’s strange. I have heard things like “Let’s pray that God would change so & so. Or, “That God would change so & so’s heart.” Where’s the person’s responsibility? It’s on God, not the person.

    I have seen Calvinist pastors tweet, “Teach your kids they are broken. Deeply broken.” And Tullian’s, “I can’t remember one good thing I’ve ever done.” What’s your take on these statements?

    I’m not saying these parents claim to be Calvinist. I’m saying they operate with underlying beliefs such as “boys will be boys”, etc. Please tell me what the difference is between that & the belief that all are wicked, evil, totally depraved, no good, can’t do good Calvinist belief.

    For the record, I have no personal experience with SGM. But I do know that how abuse seems to be swept under the table there is flat out wrong. And Mohler, Piper, and friends still support CJ. Some of whom spoke out about the Penn State abuse. Interested in your thoughts about this as well.

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  6. Kevin said, on December 10, 2013 at 9:47 AM

    “A mom”
    When a Calvinist speaks of God’s sovereignty and mans responsibility, he is speaking of events that God has clearly decreed or ordained but hold mans responsible for his actions. Joseph said to his brothers “what you meant for evil, God meant for good.” God clearly ordained all that happened to Joseph but held his brothers responsible for their sin. The Crucifixion of Christ, its clear that God ordained the death of our Savior but held the jews and the leaders responsible. Acts2; “This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.” So, this is what it means. The Asyrians. God clearly directed the Asyrians to destroy the Jews and then held the Asyrians responsible for it. This is what we mean. There is clearly a tension between Gods Sovereignty and mans responsibility.

    Regarding your example of Praying “let’s pray that God would change so and so.” I think ALL Christians pray like this, no? It’s God who changes the heart, it’s the Holy Spirit who convicts of sin. I can’t imagine praying “John, I pray that you finally stop drinking alcohol and get sober.” I would pray “God, please give John the power to say no to alcohol and bring him to an end of himself and give him the power and courage to turn his eyes to your grace and mercy.” Right?

    When it comes to salvation, then yes, it’s all about God because Man can’t raise himself from the dead. Romans says, “For the wages of sin is death.” So, if you believe we are born in sin, then man is totally depraved and cannot bring himself to salvation. If man has any part in his salvation, then he has room to boast. And Ephesians clearly says “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Therefore, God has to regenerate the spiritually dead person.

    Your other point, when Calvinist preachers talk about telling their kids “they are broken, deeply broken,” what they are saying is to be honest with your kids that they are sinners and broken before God and are in need of the Gospel. It’s not to abuse the children. We live in a culture that idolizes children and tells them they are special and good, etc, so if you’re told that your whole life, then why would you need a Savior? A Calvinist is simply honest with their kids that they are broken, because it’s the truth. Same way a preacher tells an adult that they are broken before God and in need of a savior. Obviously the tone and language is different with kids and adults but both need to know the truth of their spiritual state before God.

    Why Tullian says, “I can’t remember one good thing I’ve ever done,” not really sure. I can only think that what he’s saying is that he, himself has not done any good, but that through Christ, he has done good.” It seems like he’s making the point that he doesn’t want to boast in himself, apart from Christ. Which is not a bad thing. Giving credit to Christ for the good you do is much better than taking the credit for yourself. Without Christ or faith, all the good we do is selfish in nature. He probably means something like that. What do you think he means?

    I think I know what’s confusing you. Calvinists believe you can’t do anything good/Godly good, apart from Christ. Hebrews says, “Without faith, it is impossible to please God.” So, it’s clear that the unbeliever cannot please God. No matter how much volunteer work they do, or money they give, they cannot please God. They’re actions might please man or the world and look like good things, but to God, they are not because the unbeliever does not have faith in Christ. BUT, this does not excuse mans behavior. In the case of Steubenville, this is just pure pride and sin, like I said before. I mean, look at the Catholic Church. They aren’t Calvinists and the sex scandals and coverup are rampant and disgusting. Same in Arminian or non-Calvinist churches. These types of sad events are just pure sin.

    I agree with you about why Mohler and Piper are still friends with CJ. It’s baffling. The one thing I can say is this. I have learned that our “celebrity” or famous preachers are not very discerning. It could be because they are to busy, they don’t have time to research the internet, or something sinister. I don’t know but it’s not really an excuse, it’s sin. For example, Piper had Rick Warren at a conference because he didn’t know what Warren believed. really? Just go on the internet and look it up or listen to a sermon….it was mind boggling. These guys don’t take the time like we do to investigate people. Like I said, it’s no excuse. It’s irresponsible. Mohler should know better. I believe a part of a Pastors job should be to spend some time daily researching the internet so they can protect their flock from bad stuff and be aware of what’s going on. But most don’t. It’s a travesty.

    Also, any form of Spiritual abuse is unGodly and should be called out by everyone with a voice. For Mohler and Piper, if they know, which they have too, not to say something, it’s completely wrong.

    Sorry for so long.

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