Paul's Passing Thoughts

A Conversation Between a New Calvinist and a Biblicist

Posted in Uncategorized by Paul M. Dohse Sr. on July 31, 2013

NC: We are all just sinners saved by grace.

B: I am not a sinner.

NC: Did you sin today?

B: In regard to what? My justification or my sanctification?

NC: Uh, Uh, your justification.

B: Well then no, I didn’t sin today.

NC: So you are perfect?

B: In regard to justification or sanctification?

NC: Justification.

B: Yes, I am perfect.

NC: How does being declared justified make you perfect?

B: Because the apostle Paul said that where there is no law, there is no sin, and I am justified apart from the law. Paul also said that the law has nothing to say to us for justification.

NC: But James 2:10 says that if you break the law at one point, you are guilty of breaking the whole law.

B: And the Bible also states that I fulfill the whole law by loving my neighbor.

NC: So you’re an antinomian.

B: In justification or sanctification?

NC: Uh, uh, what’s the difference?

B: Sinning apart from justification has to do with condemnation, sinning in sanctification makes us subject to the Father’s discipline. There is no condemnation for those who are under grace because there is no law to judge us, the old us that was under law is dead and cannot be brought under indictment. Our sin is a family matter and not sin that condemns us.  Family = under grace; under law = condemnation. The Lord’s discipline versus condemnation; justification as a finished work that ended the law versus sanctification.

Jesus Christ our Lord is the end of the law for those who believe. The standard for justification is the new birth, not perfect law-keeping (1John 3:9).

Other related passages: Romans 3:19, 20, 4:15, 5:13, 7:6,8, 10:4, 1Timothy 1:9, Galaians 2:19.

paul

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12 Responses

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  1. paulspassingthoughts said, on July 31, 2013 at 7:23 AM

    Reblogged this on Clearcreek Chapel Watch.

    Like

  2. Abe said, on July 31, 2013 at 8:19 AM

    Thank you for stating your position that we are not under any of the law for justification.

    Like

  3. Argo said, on July 31, 2013 at 9:02 AM

    Paul,

    That helped me to understand your position more than anything you’ve said before. LOL

    It was exquisite. 🙂

    PS How is your awesome family!

    Like

    • paulspassingthoughts said, on July 31, 2013 at 9:08 AM

      Argo,

      We are doing wonderful and trust the same for you as well.

      Like

  4. trust4himonly said, on July 31, 2013 at 9:21 AM

    “Our sin is a family matter and not a civil matter. Family = under grace; under law = condemnation.”

    Excellent point! If we were still under the law, we would have no right to call God our Father; we would have no right to call Jesus our Friend. This actually was the deciding factor (there were other factors leading up to this one) for me and my family to leave the Calvinist church when the leader in my home group told us that we could not call Jesus our Friend. I was floored- what a blow to a Christian who might be a new believer to hear these words.

    Family does not throw or abandon out his own kin! Our sins died once and for all at the cross. We are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit (God Himself). He has taken over our very soul. This is why Paul states that he is not his own, but a bond servant to the Lord. Just like Israel, God has not left her nor will He leave us. He chastises us; He rebukes us when we sin, but does not abandon us. Calvinism teaches that God will abandon and will leave us orphans if we are not in keeping with the law. Calvinist! you are no different then the Pharisee! You make up your own laws and masquerade them as truth. You are arrogant and foolish in your thinking and teaching!

    Calvinism = bondage, slave to law
    Arminianism = bondage, slave to law

    Two sides of the same coin.

    Like

    • paulspassingthoughts said, on July 31, 2013 at 9:41 AM

      ….and it’s ok because Jesus keeps the law for us. But who keeps the law isn’t the point. Law is the point. Calvinism proposes that Christ’s perfect obedience is part of the atonement because we are still under the law. Not so. Instead of the ONE ACT of obedience to the cross to end the law, they propose a plurality of “saving acts” plural. John Piper is constantly referring to the “saving acts” of Christ. By preaching the gospel to ourselves everyday those acts are progressively imputed to us because we are still under law. It’s heresy.

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  5. trust4himonly said, on July 31, 2013 at 2:05 PM

    Jesus keeping the law for us!!- such heresy indeed. Jesus did not need to keep any law- He is the law itself.
    The fact that they even bring up that Christ keeps doing these saving acts that they, the “Pharisees” themselves can then define, it is heresy from the pit of hell!

    Two points here:
    1. How dare they mock God by claiming that He keeps “trying to save us” (because basically is that not what they are truly saying?)! That Christ Himself was not quite capable of doing it once. No different then any other religion that teaches “perpetual salvation” (which by the way is all of them). They have then reduced God to nothing but an ineffective being incapable of saving of His own creation. Christ is then reduced to continually be portrayed as the “dead man on the cross” because in reality this is exactly what the Catholics have been brainwashed in. “Dead man on the cross” = perpetual salvation

    2. Second, it reduces Gods most precious creation- humankind, to nothing more then a pawn; a being to be manipulated with. It would have been better if we were never born or even just be an unbeliever then to go through the maze of this kind of thinking. I mean why bother!! No wonder many have turned away from God when being in Calvinism and then see the hypocrisy and false teaching of this religion. It is so sad that this is the concoction of the day!

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  6. freegracefull said, on July 31, 2013 at 5:09 PM

    This is why the Church in this country is in so much trouble. They can’t even agree on how we are saved.

    ” Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God.”

    In other words, it’s done, move on people. The Bible does not speak of Christ being obedient to the law, it constantly speaks of His being obedient to death on the cross.

    A crucifix points to a dead or dying Savior. It points to the COST of our Salvation. It is good to meditate on the incredible cost that purchased us for God. We should never stop meditating on it, especially as we remember the Lord on Sunday with the Lord’s Supper.

    Now we serve a RISEN Savior. As the writer of Hebrews said, it’s time to move on and mature in Christ. You are justified, now let’s work out how to live holy, worthy of your salvation. Pretty much the whole Old Testament after the gospels is practical instruction in this.

    But some just can’t even get past the foundation.

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  7. Ryan said, on July 31, 2013 at 6:41 PM

    Amen, awesome post Paul. Your website is a wealth of information

    Like

  8. trust4himonly said, on July 31, 2013 at 8:00 PM

    Exactly right Freegracefull

    Unfortunately, people still buy into the man-centered “gospel” of trying to do, to receive. The Bible is so clear because if we would only heed to the Holy Spirits voice, who Himself is the Author of this truth, we would be able to throw off the shackles of slavery and live free!

    Like

  9. james jordan said, on July 31, 2013 at 10:08 PM

    Calvinist: Aren’t you a criminal? Haven’t you ever sped?

    Biblicict: When I speed a little they don’t throw me in jail. So the premise that under law = condemnation is wrong. You have to break the law pretty bad to be condemned.

    Calvinist: But all crimes are equal.

    Biblicist: Since when?

    Like

  10. Argo said, on October 22, 2013 at 11:42 AM

    Love it,

    Like


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