Evangelizing the Calvinists
Don’t argue with Calvinists–evangelize them! The mission field of those entangled in the false gospel of progressive justification is white unto harvest. Join the cause!
PPT and TANC are developing tracts to be distributed at the Cross Conference in Louisville Kentucky. You can donate to the cause by sending check or money order to TANC PO Box 583 Xenia, OH 45385. TANC is a non-profit LLC. The tracts and information we are developing will be available for input and suggestions in the near future. Your support of our evangelism team is greatly appreciated!
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
Good. I’ve long said that calvinists need evangelization, not “conversation”
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Or….”Conversion not conversation.” Me like: “Calvinism: Conversion NOT Conversation.”
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Thank you for the Blessed messages each time and is strengthening my soul and to share with our people in India, we have much idolatry here, please pray for INDIA. In Jesus Love, Evangelist Babu.
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I’ve been following this blog for around a month now and have really been trying to understand where you (PPT, and other supportive posters) are coming from. Even now, I don’t feel 100% qualified to comment on much of what is written here, esp in the conversations between Argo, John, Lydia, etc. Much of the talk is well beyond my capabilities of understanding. At times I’ve found myself asking “what benefit is all this pontificating to the young christian? How can they possibly even understand it? It’s all so lofty”. But maybe it’s not directed at the new believer. I can see that if it’s the case. It’s also clear there is a total disdain for New Calvinism, and I think for good reason too. I had heard the term only in recent months (this might be how I found your blog – searching NC) and was curious as to what the difference is between Calvinism and NC. I think I even asked you, Paul, once on twitter if there was a difference and you said no. That set me on a path to really understanding NC and what are the core beliefs of those practicing it. I will say, I’m somewhat new to the Piper, Washer, Mahaney, etal scene, and honestly, nothing has really sparked my enthusiasm for them. I did watch the “Shocking Youth” video of Washers and thought he made some good points about Christianity in our modern culture. In large, I agree with him.
Then, just the other day, I made a comment regarding J-Mac just being a different kind of Calvinist than others. But I hear your points loud and clear about the silliness of one saying even Calvin wasn’t a Calvinist. It does sound rather ridiculous when you say it. Although I’ve never said that specifically, I have considered myself a 5-point Calvinist (like I mentioned in the other comment) and that being as far as I take it. And, yes, I don’t really use that terminology anymore, even though I still hold to those doctrines. I’ve since heard others call them the Doctrines of Grace. I’ve since adopted that terminology, but honestly, I’m not all that interested in “labels” except just to know where someone is coming from and saying I’m a premil, pretrib, dispy, saves me a lot of time than actually having to go through all of Scripture to communicate those beliefs. Actually, I came to believe them (Doctrines of Grace) and was taught them some years ago having never really heard of Calvin or what he believed at that time.
I guess what I’m really wanting to figure out here from the writers on this blog is how would someone like myself be viewed as in light of the information put on here. I haven’t searched the whole blog to know whether my questions have been answered thoroughly or not. So, maybe if I just list out a few things I believe in, someone can tell me whether I would fit into the category of those critiqued here so often.
I believe:
– Salvation is by faith alone in Christ. I have placed my complete trust in Christ’s death as payment for my sins, and it is in His death that I am trusting in (not my continued works) for eternal life in heaven.
– Justification is NOT progressive. It happens once at the moment of salvation, declaring the new believer righteous in the eyes of God in the sense that ALL of our sins have been paid for and we are guaranteed eternal life in heaven.
– Sanctification is the process of the believer being delivered from the power of sin to becoming more holy until we die, never reaching perfection in this life.
– Eternal Security – Once you become a christian, you can never lose your salvation. I know Calvin calls it “perseverance of the Saints”, but I’ve just understood this as believers will persevere to becoming more holy over time. It doesn’t mean they must persevere in obedience in order to maintain their salvation. Their perseverance is evidence of their salvation not the qualification of it. It also allows for some believers to lapse into sin, some even dying “prematurely” because of their sin.
– We have been predestined to salvation based on God’s foreknowledge (not merely knowing in advance what that we will choose Christ, but, in fact, choosing us to become predestined based on the counsel of His own will). Of course, I believe in the other 3 points: Total depravity (although only as non-believers), Unconditional election, Limited (Particular) Atonement, and Irresistable grace.
[Note: I don’t believe a person has to know any of this in order to be saved. I’ve never been comfortable with the phrase, “Calvinism is the gospel”. It think that’s absurd to say and really clouds the simple message of the gospel that Christ died for our sins and we must trust in His death as payment for our sins. I never knew any of these points until long after I became a Christian]
– I am Premil, Pretrib, Dispy (not sure if any of this is relevant to the discussion but just that I part ways with the rest of the Reformed movement on Eschatology. I do think J-Mac is the same on these though. Not sure)
– I believe in the Trinity as has been historically understood – there are three different persons in the one Godhead. (Sorry there Argo, hehe)
– I believe in evangelism and that is the purpose of the church to go into all the world and preach the gospel to anyone.
So, my last question is, based on what you’ve read here, would I be considered one of the people who need to be evangelized by those here? If you have other questions you need answered before answering mine, that’s fine. I do think, though, there are a number of people out there like me who don’t necessarily line up with Calvin on many things but do on some. So I know I speak for others in my comments here.
(Btw, in case anyone was wondering, I’m not a Calvinist hack. I don’t have a blog somewhere and am coming here for trouble or to fight. I sincerely really just want to grasp what the teaching here is getting at, and I often really see here what is NOT believed. I haven’t seen – unless I’m missing it – some kind of statement of faith that helps me identify with what the folks here believe. Maybe this isn’t the place for that, and that’s ok. But like I said earlier, I haven’t been around long and maybe that info is posted somewhere.)
Matt
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Matt,
You are NOT a Calvinist. Calvin believed 180 from what you have listed above.
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If Matt is not a Calvinist, neither am I
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Randy,
Only the Lord knows your heart, but since you teach a false gospel I must urge you to repent and accept the true gospel. Our new position with Calvinism is, “conversion, not conversation.”
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Matt, Have you read the Institutes or done any research/reading on Calvin’s role in Geneva or the historical politics of the Reformation? Doing that gives one tons of insight to what it was really all about. Basically, it was about reforming the Catholic church and elevating a pastor to center stage instead of the sacraments. (there is more but it was more about politics/corruption than purely seeking God. (The Ana Baptists are a better example of purely seeking God during that time as they were very persecuted by the “godly” Reformers)
To me an important step is to stay away from Systematic Theology. It is man made and negates the Holy Spirit illuminating truth as you seek His truths in constant prayer/study.
The problem with JMac and other celebs is that Christianity has become cult of personality with them. It is their business, so to speak. It is what they “do”. And yes, they are “professional” Christians seeking followers. And they are constantly tweaking their theology to fit the arena they are in or the group they are around. They seek stages. So be very careful.
Very glad you are here. I differ from Paul in that this part makes me think you lean Calvinist:
“We have been predestined to salvation based on God’s foreknowledge (not merely knowing in advance what that we will choose Christ, but, in fact, choosing us to become predestined based on the counsel of His own will). Of course, I believe in the other 3 points: Total depravity (although only as non-believers), Unconditional election, Limited (Particular) Atonement, and Irresistable grace.”
Those are the biggies. If by total depravity you mean inability (which it sounds like you do based upon your description of predestination) then that is very Calvinistic. Irresistable grace is a problem. If you read about the rich young ruler, you have God in the flesh, “looking at him, loving him” and then consigning him to hell because he was not elected. That would have been Jesus’ opportunity to provide irresistible grace but since the RYR was consigned to hell before Adam sinned Jesus just looked at him and loved him. Sounds monsterous to me.
Hey, I am glad you are here. I hope you engage us more!
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What is so hard to understand about being “dead in trespasses and sins” but still being able to reason a decision for or against Christ? I want to know! I used to believe in “total depravity” too, until I learned what Reformed theology takes this to mean and the implications of it. Dangit, I guess I didn’t make a decision at all, I was just gifted and elect. What a way to breed supreme arrogance! And what is so hard about realizing that in order for God to be JUST he gives each a choice? He is going to judge the non-elect because he loved them yet consigned them to hell before the world began? REALLY????????? And at some point in time he gives irresitable grace to the elect for belief, but when? How? And WHY does ANY preaching need to take place on the subject if the elect are the elect and that’s that????? The theological pretzel that results from this baloney is mind-boggling! Seriously, what is it about TULIP that attracts the “intellectual”? Is it because their brains are wired to HAVE TO be able to systematize everything to their understanding? I guess I am thankful to be an idiot who feebly tries to get his understanding from the Holy Spirit.
And to my mind, Limited Atonement is even more implausible than Irresistable Grace. Just put the books down and pick up THE BOOK and read it in the Holy Spirit. “THE WORLD” means the WORLD, not the elect. Words mean things and do NOT need to be “spiritualized”. TULIP is a blindfold and an incredible stronghold of the devil to keep people from the cross of Christ. And that’s all our enemy wants. He has no problem with religiosity, or good deeds or anything EXCEPT THE CROSS. I’ve never truly realized how real Christ’s words were when he said “narrow is the way and few there are who find it”.
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