I’m not sure if there are 30,000 denominations or not. But even if there are, that’s fine. A few tell the true Gospel, and most don’t. Every one that claims to be a believer is a denomination unto themselves in the sense that every one that claims to be a believer, stands alone with Jesus (or without, as the case may be). So in that sense, there have been billions of denominations, and that’s fine. Whether in a house, or in a huge building, the church is indeed the redeemed.
paulspassingthoughts said, on January 29, 2013 at 11:05 AM
I think home churches put more of the load to lead on the laity. Susan and I have learned more in the past year than we have in all of our Christian lives. I am trying to get more info on this movement and I see some red flags, but their overall organizational concepts are pretty strong.
Paul
I have witnessed all my elders betray their congregation of 25 years and submit themselves to a vision that rejected loving fellowship and outreach to those in need. They converted to a church model of absolute authority and notoriety of their “works oriented” positioning – while preaching Grace Grace Grace. Which if all you preach is Grace, then you end up believing you can do nothing wrong – Grace covers it all – they don’t even seem to feel they broke their vows or did anything wrong. I am convinced today’s churches value carnal principals of organization, administration, growth, and traditional worship services that elevate leaders above the congregation, which eventually seduces them into sinful tragedies for congregations. Leaders is not a biblical concept associated with the church. Jesus was referred to as Rabbi, teacher. He loved everyone and spoke in kindness and care to the sinners and encouraged them to change their sinful ways. The very concept of leader is a prideful positioning of sinful man above others when used in relation to the church. The bible tells us if you know and do all in obediance to scripture but have not love, you are ….. The very existence of all the denominations is prideful establishment for the beliefs of the members to conform and rally arround.The beliefs of the denominations therefore become weapons for spiritual warfare with Christians of other denominations. It is sick to percieve. The two greatest commandments should be primary to our every breath. The rest of the bible should not be points of contention or debate – it is self destructing. The institutional churches are inanimate bastions of seduction when run by sinful man.They operate in most ways on principals based in the world, not the bible. I have seen them at their worst and I saw loving friends hurt severly and almost all others not take a stand for righteosness because they feared religion more than the Truth. That was the very hardest of all to accept. I am now much wiser and closer to God as a result of such ugliness within the church and will never again be shanghaied into such a deceptive culture.
In His Merciful Grace
rgh
The home churches can be just as good or bad as the institutional churches when man is allowed to rule over or above a group. We are the church whenever two or more Christians gather in His name. There are many institutional churches that are blessed with humble and loving men and women. I do not suggest abandoning the good instruction and loving support that many churches offer. I do belief we are to be very careful on our acceptance and criticism, as we are instructed in scripture. I personally never want to hear a one way interpretation and presentation of God’s Word again. By that very nature we are to accept the preacher’s meesage without question and that makes us lazy and dull thinking. We begin to rely on his weekly sermons as effortless feeding of the”Truth” of scripture and do nothing for ourselves. I now realize how that priestly relationship is the exactly why I left the Catholic church after forty years. I know now that i had just taken a baby step into the same authoritative model, just different tricks. My personal measurement stick is to look carefully for the smallest sign of pride or total lack of love and humility expressed from ones’ mouth.That person is not representing Christ. I find myself there very often and it disgusts me. I realize how all of us are fallen and imperfect. So I look for programatic sport of sin rather than isolated instances. I have learned a great deal from the recordings and books by Wayne Jacobson and Lifestream Ministries. I have asked him for explanation on one of his points and he has told me not to seek and accept his position but to research and find the truth for myself. Of course he answers and helps many people but his position was not to follow any man, discover the truth for yourself. I have found a new peace and understanding without any conflicts that always came to mind in the institutional church. In over twenty years I never found any “seminary degreed, ordained, and or otherwise professional Christians” who had a desire to engage in discussions over the hard to understand interpretations of scripture. I know they are not evil in intent (mostly) but they are subconsciously handcuffed to the theology / doctrine of their denomination and do not want to tread near the boundaries. The are so far entrenched in the traditions of the church they support practices that they know do not have a biblical base and they will not go there in discussion, and may pull the discipline card if they feel too challenged. Our churches in America have turned their responsibilities for loving and caring for the poor over to the goverment. They have a marriage and divorce record as bad as the secular world. They have not supported Christian values in the schools and public arena in which their own kids experience life. We are well on our way to losing the Christian fabric of America because we sat in our comfort zone drunk on our riches and success and allowed the evilness to purvey our culture. Francis Schaeffer has a 3 part sermon on you tube that he gave in the early eighties that speaks of the destructiveness of our “Idol of Personal Peace and Affluence.” He really nails the character of men in America over the past decades. We never agree in totallity on everything anyone preaches but that does not disqualify or devalue the insights we do gain and grow in – as many detractors may argue to feed the spiritual war amongst us. The enemy has many ways to spin us and we seem to be oblivious and all to willing. I include myself in all the failures I perceive.
In His Merciful Grace
rgh
I have found as well to be VERY careful. I look for whether or not humility is present and love. I have not found many churches speaking on agape love or even the fruits of the Spirit. One sign that I look for is if any group (whether home group or church) stays on one topic and does not preach with balance. That is a warning to me if that church uses that topic as bait and for it to be their message instead taking the whole council of God (Like my past church used the cross and suffering as their “pet” message). This then becomes what is IMPORTANT and must be followed.
A thing to remember that even discernment sites have gotten into trouble by focusing too much on what is wrong in the world. They then forget about the resting, joy and peace that Christ gives AND that we will not be able to solve all the worlds ills. I have been on a discernment site where the moderator has now become angry and lashes out on anyone who disagrees- calling them false teachers and prophets.
That is why balance is important- in our walk as a Christian and in our studying of Scripture.
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
I’m not sure if there are 30,000 denominations or not. But even if there are, that’s fine. A few tell the true Gospel, and most don’t. Every one that claims to be a believer is a denomination unto themselves in the sense that every one that claims to be a believer, stands alone with Jesus (or without, as the case may be). So in that sense, there have been billions of denominations, and that’s fine. Whether in a house, or in a huge building, the church is indeed the redeemed.
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I think home churches put more of the load to lead on the laity. Susan and I have learned more in the past year than we have in all of our Christian lives. I am trying to get more info on this movement and I see some red flags, but their overall organizational concepts are pretty strong.
LikeLike
Paul
I have witnessed all my elders betray their congregation of 25 years and submit themselves to a vision that rejected loving fellowship and outreach to those in need. They converted to a church model of absolute authority and notoriety of their “works oriented” positioning – while preaching Grace Grace Grace. Which if all you preach is Grace, then you end up believing you can do nothing wrong – Grace covers it all – they don’t even seem to feel they broke their vows or did anything wrong. I am convinced today’s churches value carnal principals of organization, administration, growth, and traditional worship services that elevate leaders above the congregation, which eventually seduces them into sinful tragedies for congregations. Leaders is not a biblical concept associated with the church. Jesus was referred to as Rabbi, teacher. He loved everyone and spoke in kindness and care to the sinners and encouraged them to change their sinful ways. The very concept of leader is a prideful positioning of sinful man above others when used in relation to the church. The bible tells us if you know and do all in obediance to scripture but have not love, you are ….. The very existence of all the denominations is prideful establishment for the beliefs of the members to conform and rally arround.The beliefs of the denominations therefore become weapons for spiritual warfare with Christians of other denominations. It is sick to percieve. The two greatest commandments should be primary to our every breath. The rest of the bible should not be points of contention or debate – it is self destructing. The institutional churches are inanimate bastions of seduction when run by sinful man.They operate in most ways on principals based in the world, not the bible. I have seen them at their worst and I saw loving friends hurt severly and almost all others not take a stand for righteosness because they feared religion more than the Truth. That was the very hardest of all to accept. I am now much wiser and closer to God as a result of such ugliness within the church and will never again be shanghaied into such a deceptive culture.
In His Merciful Grace
rgh
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rgh,
I just got off the phone with someone who knows a lot about this movement. Encouraging. Our father will not leave us without a way. Stay in the fight.
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The home churches can be just as good or bad as the institutional churches when man is allowed to rule over or above a group. We are the church whenever two or more Christians gather in His name. There are many institutional churches that are blessed with humble and loving men and women. I do not suggest abandoning the good instruction and loving support that many churches offer. I do belief we are to be very careful on our acceptance and criticism, as we are instructed in scripture. I personally never want to hear a one way interpretation and presentation of God’s Word again. By that very nature we are to accept the preacher’s meesage without question and that makes us lazy and dull thinking. We begin to rely on his weekly sermons as effortless feeding of the”Truth” of scripture and do nothing for ourselves. I now realize how that priestly relationship is the exactly why I left the Catholic church after forty years. I know now that i had just taken a baby step into the same authoritative model, just different tricks. My personal measurement stick is to look carefully for the smallest sign of pride or total lack of love and humility expressed from ones’ mouth.That person is not representing Christ. I find myself there very often and it disgusts me. I realize how all of us are fallen and imperfect. So I look for programatic sport of sin rather than isolated instances. I have learned a great deal from the recordings and books by Wayne Jacobson and Lifestream Ministries. I have asked him for explanation on one of his points and he has told me not to seek and accept his position but to research and find the truth for myself. Of course he answers and helps many people but his position was not to follow any man, discover the truth for yourself. I have found a new peace and understanding without any conflicts that always came to mind in the institutional church. In over twenty years I never found any “seminary degreed, ordained, and or otherwise professional Christians” who had a desire to engage in discussions over the hard to understand interpretations of scripture. I know they are not evil in intent (mostly) but they are subconsciously handcuffed to the theology / doctrine of their denomination and do not want to tread near the boundaries. The are so far entrenched in the traditions of the church they support practices that they know do not have a biblical base and they will not go there in discussion, and may pull the discipline card if they feel too challenged. Our churches in America have turned their responsibilities for loving and caring for the poor over to the goverment. They have a marriage and divorce record as bad as the secular world. They have not supported Christian values in the schools and public arena in which their own kids experience life. We are well on our way to losing the Christian fabric of America because we sat in our comfort zone drunk on our riches and success and allowed the evilness to purvey our culture. Francis Schaeffer has a 3 part sermon on you tube that he gave in the early eighties that speaks of the destructiveness of our “Idol of Personal Peace and Affluence.” He really nails the character of men in America over the past decades. We never agree in totallity on everything anyone preaches but that does not disqualify or devalue the insights we do gain and grow in – as many detractors may argue to feed the spiritual war amongst us. The enemy has many ways to spin us and we seem to be oblivious and all to willing. I include myself in all the failures I perceive.
In His Merciful Grace
rgh
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Well spoken rgh…..
I have found as well to be VERY careful. I look for whether or not humility is present and love. I have not found many churches speaking on agape love or even the fruits of the Spirit. One sign that I look for is if any group (whether home group or church) stays on one topic and does not preach with balance. That is a warning to me if that church uses that topic as bait and for it to be their message instead taking the whole council of God (Like my past church used the cross and suffering as their “pet” message). This then becomes what is IMPORTANT and must be followed.
A thing to remember that even discernment sites have gotten into trouble by focusing too much on what is wrong in the world. They then forget about the resting, joy and peace that Christ gives AND that we will not be able to solve all the worlds ills. I have been on a discernment site where the moderator has now become angry and lashes out on anyone who disagrees- calling them false teachers and prophets.
That is why balance is important- in our walk as a Christian and in our studying of Scripture.
LikeLike