Of course their is no law for Christians. To imply that they must keep a standard is to imply that they have the faculties to do so. The very premise of Calvinism is that man NEVER has this ability, before, during or after salvation. It’s ALL of God, and it’s ALL of grace means exactly that. God forces man to want Him, forces Him to choose Him, and then forces Him to be sanctified. In other words, God makes Himself want Himself, forces Himself to choose Himself, and keeps His commandments for Himself. Man is an utterly mindless, depraved observer in the entire process. To imply that man has a law to keep implies that man can offer something GOOD to the relationship; that man’s mind is not, in fact, dead, and that he is not a lump of flesh.
To imply that he can keep the law after salvation implies that he can freely CHOOSE God before salvation. The Calvinists are realizing this. If it’s ALL God’s grace before it MUST be ALL God’s grace after. Otherwise you are saying God cannot force you to choose him without also giving you the ability afterwards to have free will/free choice. This would mean that as a product of your salvation you can freely choose to sin: since you no longer have a sin nature, you cannot blame your sin on that nature…you’ve been born again, and your NEW nature means that now, in addition to having the power to do good freely you can also freely sin; and this is why Calvinists preach that total depravity remains after salvation. The regenerated mind still sins, but if it isn’t totally depraved then what is the implication? It is that after salvation, instead of blaming your sin on sin nature, which you could not resist, you can now sin FREELY, making God’s sacrifice the very reason that you can now freely sin of your own volition, and not as a product of the Fall. This is blasphemous, obviously, thus the Calvinists must concede that total depravity before means total depravity after. Any other way makes God culpable for man’s sin after salvation.
The dirty little secret is that what this means is that Christ’s sacrifice is ultimately pointless. Man is the same with or without the cross…you are going where you are going; the cross is a mere formality, and any “new man” has nothing to do with the real you, which is still just a mindless beast that must be forced into heaven or hell upon,ultimately, God’s mere whim. The cross serves only to make it look more ceremonious.
So, if God is doing all things for Himself, just through man as a middleman, this means that to hold MAN to a standard of law or commands means we are saying that God (the Christian “part” of the lump of flesh call man) is holding Himself accountable to a law in order to coral sin (but God cannot sin, so God needs NO law, or rules, or commands, or standards). Obviously, this is impossible,so the “logical” Calvinist conclusion is that Christians MUST be free of the law, as God, who is really responsible or sanctification, is free of the Law.
This is why free will and election are so crucial to getting right. They cannot both be true. There has to be a real explanation that makes sense and that we can grasp. Total depravity (the foundation of the doctrine of election) before salvation meas that you must also be totally depraved after. Free will before salvation must mean free will after salvation. It simply cannot be any other way. Either man can choose freely his entire life, or he cannot. Both of these things cannot be true in the same man in his lifetime (I say “man” a lot…of course I mean woman also, though, I believe women are better than men, so, I’m tempted to say that God may hold them to a different standards, LOL!).
Argo, Absolutely. And that has been my point of late. Take all of the elements: total depravity etc; and the only possible thing that can make them all fit together is Gnosticism. It’s a fairly simple equation.
You guys need to stop posting until you know what you are talking about. Whatever Bresson may say, NCT does not teach that NC believers are without any law at all. To be without Moses’ law is not to be without God’s law. There is not a single principle that real Calvinism shares with gnosticism.
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
Of course their is no law for Christians. To imply that they must keep a standard is to imply that they have the faculties to do so. The very premise of Calvinism is that man NEVER has this ability, before, during or after salvation. It’s ALL of God, and it’s ALL of grace means exactly that. God forces man to want Him, forces Him to choose Him, and then forces Him to be sanctified. In other words, God makes Himself want Himself, forces Himself to choose Himself, and keeps His commandments for Himself. Man is an utterly mindless, depraved observer in the entire process. To imply that man has a law to keep implies that man can offer something GOOD to the relationship; that man’s mind is not, in fact, dead, and that he is not a lump of flesh.
To imply that he can keep the law after salvation implies that he can freely CHOOSE God before salvation. The Calvinists are realizing this. If it’s ALL God’s grace before it MUST be ALL God’s grace after. Otherwise you are saying God cannot force you to choose him without also giving you the ability afterwards to have free will/free choice. This would mean that as a product of your salvation you can freely choose to sin: since you no longer have a sin nature, you cannot blame your sin on that nature…you’ve been born again, and your NEW nature means that now, in addition to having the power to do good freely you can also freely sin; and this is why Calvinists preach that total depravity remains after salvation. The regenerated mind still sins, but if it isn’t totally depraved then what is the implication? It is that after salvation, instead of blaming your sin on sin nature, which you could not resist, you can now sin FREELY, making God’s sacrifice the very reason that you can now freely sin of your own volition, and not as a product of the Fall. This is blasphemous, obviously, thus the Calvinists must concede that total depravity before means total depravity after. Any other way makes God culpable for man’s sin after salvation.
The dirty little secret is that what this means is that Christ’s sacrifice is ultimately pointless. Man is the same with or without the cross…you are going where you are going; the cross is a mere formality, and any “new man” has nothing to do with the real you, which is still just a mindless beast that must be forced into heaven or hell upon,ultimately, God’s mere whim. The cross serves only to make it look more ceremonious.
So, if God is doing all things for Himself, just through man as a middleman, this means that to hold MAN to a standard of law or commands means we are saying that God (the Christian “part” of the lump of flesh call man) is holding Himself accountable to a law in order to coral sin (but God cannot sin, so God needs NO law, or rules, or commands, or standards). Obviously, this is impossible,so the “logical” Calvinist conclusion is that Christians MUST be free of the law, as God, who is really responsible or sanctification, is free of the Law.
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This is why free will and election are so crucial to getting right. They cannot both be true. There has to be a real explanation that makes sense and that we can grasp. Total depravity (the foundation of the doctrine of election) before salvation meas that you must also be totally depraved after. Free will before salvation must mean free will after salvation. It simply cannot be any other way. Either man can choose freely his entire life, or he cannot. Both of these things cannot be true in the same man in his lifetime (I say “man” a lot…of course I mean woman also, though, I believe women are better than men, so, I’m tempted to say that God may hold them to a different standards, LOL!).
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Of course, now the question is: How can the Calvinist leaders lead effectively if their minds, too, are totally depraved? Hmmmm…
The answer is this word: gnosticism
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Argo, Absolutely. And that has been my point of late. Take all of the elements: total depravity etc; and the only possible thing that can make them all fit together is Gnosticism. It’s a fairly simple equation.
> —–Original Message—– >
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You guys need to stop posting until you know what you are talking about. Whatever Bresson may say, NCT does not teach that NC believers are without any law at all. To be without Moses’ law is not to be without God’s law. There is not a single principle that real Calvinism shares with gnosticism.
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Yawn.
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Argo,
Do you think a true believer can choose to be lost?
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and by the way Argo, blasphemy is a terrible sin.
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