I’m new to your site, so I have some concerns and questions about different ism’s
Your schematic has some simularities of what was happening in our church. Although I stopped attending because I felt the Pastor was delivering scriptures in an abusive manner, unlike anything I have ever seen, and then defending his “Methodology” by declaring it as “Truth”.
At the end of his tenure he attempted to close the Main Church and move to the adjacent apartment connected to the Parsonage. (in order to control cost) The new meeting area was going to be large enough for 4 or 5 small families, which is about how many people he had endoctrinated. These 5 families were going to be able to provide his support and keep his ministry exclusive.
1) How did you come up with your schematic?
2) What scriptures are they basing this on? The former Pastor in our church retaliated against congregational members (behind the pulpit, before he left the church) who wanted to keep the services in the Main Church.
3) In the above schematic what boxes that are unbiblical? It almost seems that one has to be in “seminary mode” in order to be capable of challenging the Doctrine and Methodology of a Hyper-Calvinist.
4) Is Hyper-Calvinism and New Calvinism the same thing? It seems they may have an abusive interpretation of scriptures.
paulspassingthoughts said, on April 26, 2012 at 8:28 PM
David,
1. Research. This is also very similar to cult structures. Control is the focus. This structure is very common in NC churches.
2. Uh, there are plenty. Any verse that would be about discipleship ect. Of course, they are using those good things as cover for control procedures.
3. Yes, motive. These things should come naturally out of what is taught–not control structures put in place by elders.
4. New Calvinism is a return to Calvin’s Geneva style Calvinism. It is very heavy handed and tyrannical.
David M. Adams said, on April 27, 2012 at 11:29 AM
Paul,
My daughter and her husband were both mentored by either a Hyper-Calvinist or a New Calvinist. (who happened to be the former Pastor of our church)
I can see that this diagram embraces control, which has me concerned. I have to be careful with my daughter because they still appear to be under the former Pastor’s control. (who was very heavy handed and tyrannical toward anybody that questioned his “Methodology”)
I can see that you have done extensive research because this diagram is very detailed. It will take me awhile to absorb this diagram. I want to reach out to my kids but I have to be cautious.
In your experience, did any former Calvinist give you some background of how New Calvinist interpret scriptures so abusively?
paulspassingthoughts said, on April 27, 2012 at 12:52 PM
David,
Your question would be very difficult to answer in one post as the answer encompasses 5 years of research, and yes, interviews with Calvinists and New Calvinists alike (well known/respected authorities on the subject). I am going to give you the big picture, especially in regard to the abuse/tyranny issue:
Reformed theology finds its roots in Platonism. There are no words to describe the scope of influence that Plato’s philosophical framework has had on Western civilization. Platonism emerged as a rejection of the Sophists who taught that objective truth cannot be known. Plato taught that truth can be known, but not by observation with what the 5 senses can detect. He was mentored by Socrates who believed truth was to be found in the non-material realm. This was the basis of Gnostic dualism which is very prevalent in today’s New Calvinism. The non-material, or spiritual realm holds the truth and the material is a copy/shadow of the spiritual realm’s light. Man can know truth, but because of ignorance, he is in bondage to the material world.
Plato believed that the world works best if the enlightened ones (those who have paid the price to break free from the shadows of the material/evil world in order to understand spiritual truth) ruled over the masses who were still in bondage to ignorance. He also believed that government should aid the Philosopher Kings in controlling, and thus protecting the ignorant masses from themselves. Augustine integrated Platonism into Christian thought, and it is no big secret that Luther joined the Augustinian order. Calvin’s theology was a systematizing of thought from Augustine and Luther. Calvin quotes Augustine on about (on average) every 2.5 pages in the Calvin Institutes. The results of this theology can be found in the character exhibited by Calvin’s theocracy that ruled Geneva.
Enlightened ones don’t like to be questioned by the ignorant–especially when they are only doing their level best to protect the ignorant from themselves. Hence, the NC belief that “flesh” is primarily a realm, as opposed to the “spirit” realm, and righteousness remains outside of the believer (ie., the total depravity of the saints). Let there be absolutely NO doubt: Gnosticism drives and saturates New Calvinist theology.
Thank You for your brief explanation. Much of your diagram seems to fit much of what the former Pastor practiced, although I wasn’t aware of any contracts. But it doesn’t mean contracts didn’t exist.
Because he kept his Doctrine a mystery, I did challenge him in a note of my struggles of embracing his “Methodology”, of “teaching Exegetical style preaching of teaching difficult text during the Main Sunday service” in a documented blog.
I suggested his scriptual knowledge was impressive, but was being overshadowed by the “Method”. I then suggested by appearence he embraced the “Method” more than the “Message”.
By then he had already realized I was a “Doctrinal Challenge” to his “Methodology”, which I know was some kind of branch of Calvinism. But even before his departure he never openly disclosed his Doctrine to the Congregation.
paulspassingthoughts said, on April 27, 2012 at 6:04 PM
David,
Hmmm, you guys might have dodged a bullet. I am posting something later on “Gospel Sanctification (the doctrine of New Calvinism) that may be some help.
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
Paul,
I’m new to your site, so I have some concerns and questions about different ism’s
Your schematic has some simularities of what was happening in our church. Although I stopped attending because I felt the Pastor was delivering scriptures in an abusive manner, unlike anything I have ever seen, and then defending his “Methodology” by declaring it as “Truth”.
At the end of his tenure he attempted to close the Main Church and move to the adjacent apartment connected to the Parsonage. (in order to control cost) The new meeting area was going to be large enough for 4 or 5 small families, which is about how many people he had endoctrinated. These 5 families were going to be able to provide his support and keep his ministry exclusive.
1) How did you come up with your schematic?
2) What scriptures are they basing this on? The former Pastor in our church retaliated against congregational members (behind the pulpit, before he left the church) who wanted to keep the services in the Main Church.
3) In the above schematic what boxes that are unbiblical? It almost seems that one has to be in “seminary mode” in order to be capable of challenging the Doctrine and Methodology of a Hyper-Calvinist.
4) Is Hyper-Calvinism and New Calvinism the same thing? It seems they may have an abusive interpretation of scriptures.
David
LikeLike
David,
1. Research. This is also very similar to cult structures. Control is the focus. This structure is very common in NC churches.
2. Uh, there are plenty. Any verse that would be about discipleship ect. Of course, they are using those good things as cover for control procedures.
3. Yes, motive. These things should come naturally out of what is taught–not control structures put in place by elders.
4. New Calvinism is a return to Calvin’s Geneva style Calvinism. It is very heavy handed and tyrannical.
LikeLike
Paul,
My daughter and her husband were both mentored by either a Hyper-Calvinist or a New Calvinist. (who happened to be the former Pastor of our church)
I can see that this diagram embraces control, which has me concerned. I have to be careful with my daughter because they still appear to be under the former Pastor’s control. (who was very heavy handed and tyrannical toward anybody that questioned his “Methodology”)
I can see that you have done extensive research because this diagram is very detailed. It will take me awhile to absorb this diagram. I want to reach out to my kids but I have to be cautious.
In your experience, did any former Calvinist give you some background of how New Calvinist interpret scriptures so abusively?
David
LikeLike
David,
Your question would be very difficult to answer in one post as the answer encompasses 5 years of research, and yes, interviews with Calvinists and New Calvinists alike (well known/respected authorities on the subject). I am going to give you the big picture, especially in regard to the abuse/tyranny issue:
Reformed theology finds its roots in Platonism. There are no words to describe the scope of influence that Plato’s philosophical framework has had on Western civilization. Platonism emerged as a rejection of the Sophists who taught that objective truth cannot be known. Plato taught that truth can be known, but not by observation with what the 5 senses can detect. He was mentored by Socrates who believed truth was to be found in the non-material realm. This was the basis of Gnostic dualism which is very prevalent in today’s New Calvinism. The non-material, or spiritual realm holds the truth and the material is a copy/shadow of the spiritual realm’s light. Man can know truth, but because of ignorance, he is in bondage to the material world.
Plato believed that the world works best if the enlightened ones (those who have paid the price to break free from the shadows of the material/evil world in order to understand spiritual truth) ruled over the masses who were still in bondage to ignorance. He also believed that government should aid the Philosopher Kings in controlling, and thus protecting the ignorant masses from themselves. Augustine integrated Platonism into Christian thought, and it is no big secret that Luther joined the Augustinian order. Calvin’s theology was a systematizing of thought from Augustine and Luther. Calvin quotes Augustine on about (on average) every 2.5 pages in the Calvin Institutes. The results of this theology can be found in the character exhibited by Calvin’s theocracy that ruled Geneva.
Enlightened ones don’t like to be questioned by the ignorant–especially when they are only doing their level best to protect the ignorant from themselves. Hence, the NC belief that “flesh” is primarily a realm, as opposed to the “spirit” realm, and righteousness remains outside of the believer (ie., the total depravity of the saints). Let there be absolutely NO doubt: Gnosticism drives and saturates New Calvinist theology.
paul
LikeLike
Paul,
Thank You for your brief explanation. Much of your diagram seems to fit much of what the former Pastor practiced, although I wasn’t aware of any contracts. But it doesn’t mean contracts didn’t exist.
Because he kept his Doctrine a mystery, I did challenge him in a note of my struggles of embracing his “Methodology”, of “teaching Exegetical style preaching of teaching difficult text during the Main Sunday service” in a documented blog.
I suggested his scriptual knowledge was impressive, but was being overshadowed by the “Method”. I then suggested by appearence he embraced the “Method” more than the “Message”.
By then he had already realized I was a “Doctrinal Challenge” to his “Methodology”, which I know was some kind of branch of Calvinism. But even before his departure he never openly disclosed his Doctrine to the Congregation.
David
LikeLike
David,
Hmmm, you guys might have dodged a bullet. I am posting something later on “Gospel Sanctification (the doctrine of New Calvinism) that may be some help.
LikeLike