Paul's Passing Thoughts

More Clarification on Second Review of TTANC

Posted in Uncategorized by Paul M. Dohse Sr. on December 19, 2011

Randy Seiver has posted several responses to my response regarding his review of “The Truth About New Calvinism.” But the following is the bottom line:

He is a self-proclaimed contemporary New Covenant theologian with a Th.M from Westminster Theological Seminary and a student of church history. He also knew men who were involved in the early part of the movement. After all of his rhetoric about my “muddled” thinking, contrived theories about the connections between New Covenant theology and New Calvinism, and historical dots not being connected, he confirmed his belief that the centrality of the objective gospel is the true gospel!

The centrality of the objective gospel outside of us is the magnum opus of the Australian Forum which is what drives New Calvinism. Seiver’s quote concerning COG could be added to the list of quotes on page 94 of the book. Brinsmead clearly stated to me that COG was a “unique finding” by the Forum in light of church history.

This is a simple thing; his review furthers the case made in the book.

paul

7 Responses

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  1. gracewriterrandy said, on December 19, 2011 at 8:41 PM

    Paul,

    Do you think the New Testament says more about the believer being In Christ or about Christ being in the believer? There is no question there are two or three times, maybe even a few more, in the NT Scriptures that describe Christ indwelling the believer by the Spirit. For example, “Christ in you, the hope of glory.” I am not suggesting that the Spirit’s work in us in unimportant. I am simply asking about the overwhelming majority of those references to the believer’s union with Christ that result in our sharing in his inheritance and in the accomplishments of his redemptive work.

    Additionally, do you think the New Testament Scriptures say more about what God has done in Christ or about what he is doing in us? The answer to this question is very revealing. There is no question the writers of the NT spoke about God’s work in us, for example, Phil 2:13. My question is whether they speak more about the work God has objectively accomplished in Christ that is then applied to us subjectively, or more about what God is doing in us. I think you will find the answer is overwhelming in favor of what God has objectively accomplished in Christ. Everything God is now doing in us subjectively is based on what he objectively accomplished in Christ.

    This is not Forum doctrine; this is New Testament doctrine.

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    • paulspassingthoughts said, on December 20, 2011 at 8:39 AM

      Really?

      Like

  2. gracewriterrandy said, on December 19, 2011 at 10:03 PM

    Paul,

    Apart from the fact that you don’t like people who believe in the centrality of the objective gospel, what biblical exegesis can you offer to disprove it? What God accomplished in Christ before we were ever born [to me that seems pretty much outside of us, objective] seems pretty central to me. Every blessing we will ever enjoy was secured for us long before we existed. When God unites us to Christ by calling us effectually (1 Cor 1:9), we become partakers of all those objective accomplishments. It is the work of Christ for us that forms the foundation for the work of the Spirit in us. Wow! That just sounds like biblical truth to me.

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    • paulspassingthoughts said, on December 20, 2011 at 8:33 AM

      Again Randy, like all New Calvinists, you deliberately try to complicate the issue. You know grade A well that they believe that righteousness remains outside of us in sanctification.

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  3. gracewriterrandy said, on December 19, 2011 at 11:06 PM

    Paul,

    I thought you would really appreciate these quotes from J Calvin. They may be a little older than 41 years, but they seem to be consistent with what you are calling New Calvinism. Strange, don’t you think? Calvin wrote, “”For if righteousness consists in the observance of the law, who will deny that Christ merited favor for us when, by taking that burden upon Himself, he reconciled us to God as if we had kept the law.” —Institutes, Bk. 2, chap. 17, sec 5. “Faith is said to justify not because we are rendered righteous before God on account of faith and not because faith itself pleases God more than obedience to His law, but simply because faith lays hold of Christ’s perfect obedience, with which the law is well pleased. Unless we clearly see that justification honors and establishes the law (Rom. 3:31)”

    I know Calvin was just a man, but this tends to show that the idea that Christ’s active obedience to the law is imputed to us for justification [not sanctification] antedates New Calvinism by a couple of years.

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    • paulspassingthoughts said, on December 20, 2011 at 8:25 AM

      Randy,
      This is a misrepresentation of what New Calvinists believe. They clearly believe that Christ obeyed for us in justification and sanctification. Stop wasting my time with your rhetoric. However, I will grant you this: you realize that you have to show Luther, Calvin, Owen, et. al. held to COG. Oh, here, this may help:

      A quote by Luther:
      “Ye must preach the gospel to thou self every day.”
      And Calvin:
      The same gospel that saved thee, sanctifies thee.”
      Another by Luther,
      “Thou must ask thyself X-ray questions.”

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  4. gracewriterrandy said, on December 20, 2011 at 9:56 AM

    Paul,

    I don’t know that because I have never heard one of them say that. If they do say that, they are wrong. It is that simple. It is just that the citations you provide are talking about justification, not sanctification.

    I know this will break your heart, but I will be away for a day or so and won’t be able to post anything. Try to bear up in my absence. And, have a nice Christmas.

    Randy

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