Paul's Passing Thoughts

Total Depravity of The Saints?

Posted in Uncategorized by Paul M. Dohse Sr. on December 18, 2011



“It may be objected that in Romans 7:24, the Apostle Paul calls himself ‘wretched’ and indeed he does – Wretched man that I am!

However, ‘wretched’ is not ‘wicked’. The word for wretched in Romans 7:24 is talaipōros, which is one who is enduring trials, afflicted. It comes from two base words meaning enduring or under weight, bearing a test. Apostle Paul in that passage, is not a ‘wicked’ man, he is a mature believer in Christ persevering!”

3 Responses

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  1. Lydia said, on December 19, 2011 at 12:19 AM

    I am hoping more people start listening closer to what is being taught. Quite frankly, if born again Christians remain totally depraved then we should fear attending church with them. :o)


  2. gracewriterrandy said, on December 19, 2011 at 10:39 AM


    Although I don’t agree either with New or old Calvinism’s view of Romans 7, I don’t think this observation of 5 point salt militates against it at all. I think the view should be rejected on other grounds. The meaning of the word translated “wretched” really means very little in regard to this position. The question is what is the source of this feeling of wretchedness? It is not difficult to discern that the writer senses this wretchedness because of his inability to render to the law the kind and degree of obedience it requires. The classic position is that this inability results from remaining sin. If some of these guys overstate the condition being described [I am still waiting for a quotation in which any of them call it total depravity], perhaps they need to tone down the rhetoric a bit. I think we do need to understand that sin does not lose its character because it is committed by a believer. If sin is wickedness in the unregenerate, it is wickedness in the regenerate as well.


  3. Bill said, on December 19, 2011 at 2:51 PM

    Perhaps Paul in Romans 7 is talking about his unconverted “wretched” state prior to the Road to Damascus. When he was unspiritual trying to obey spiritual laws. The man without the Spirit does not accept or obey. So who will save him from the body of sin? Jesus Christ, who sends the Helper. If we walk by the Spirit we can put to death the misdeeds of the body. God provides ways of escape and discipline so we will not be condemned with the world. The power of reigning sin can be broken with the Spirit’s power and help. Drugs, alcohol, sexual immorality, you name it. Listen to the Christian testimony out there. Sin shall no longer be your Master. It was for Freedom that Christ has set us free.

    We may be justified in the forgiveness of sins at conversion but we still sin later. We aren’t perfected yet but in the process of transformation. Believers occasionally do wicked things (sin) which incurs guilt. But if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. By Faith in His blood I am restored to a clear conscience. We must learn to love righteousness and hate wickedness, knowing that God exists and rewards those who diligently seek Him.

    Arkansas Bill


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