On what basis does a believer ask for forgiveness when he falls short of pleasing God? To me, it sounds like pretty “good news” that “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and JUST to forgive us our sins and Cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” How is that set in contrast to the gospel? This is clearly a sanctification context, yet somehow, God is just in forgiving our sins. How can he do that if not by the sacrificial work of Christ?
“Close to pure” isn’t pure 1 not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material. 2 free of impurities. 3 innocent or morally good. 4 complete; nothing but: a shout of pure anger. 5 theoretical rather than practical: pure mathematics. 6 (of a sound) perfectly in tune and with a clear tone.
I am not denying that God’s people should walk uprightly and in line with the gospel. I believe God’s people when acting in character with themselves and their profession will walk uprightly and in line with the gospel. The reality I am talking about is that God’s people do not always act in line with our professions. If we continue to walk contrary to our profession, we need to be exhorted to examine ourselves to see whether we are indeed vitally united to Christ.
paulspassingthoughts said, on October 6, 2011 at 2:48 PM
Ok Randy from CR, your wearing everybody out again, especially me. I am going to cut you off for awhile. Run along now and take your meds, and maybe stop back next week.
I don’t question that 1 John 1:9 is referring to the restoration of fellowship. It still involves asking forgiveness. Is there any basis on which God JUSTLY forgives and cleanses us?
And here is the typical response and why it is impossible to have this conversation about sanctification. They immediately charge you with thinking ‘sinless perfection’. Or me thinking I don’t sin. It is tiresome but it is a great “conversation” stopper.
Here is another way to look at it: I have been a Born Again believer for about 20 years. If I am not sinning much less from the time I was born again to today, there is a serious problem.
The question is, why would you think you can find a “Pure church” (“Close to pure” isn’t pure . Pure is not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material.) when you aren’t completely pure? I have been a part of some really good churches, but I have never found one that had no problems and no people sinning against other people. Such churches simply don’t exist this side of eternity.
Being pure is not about having no problems. That is silly. We live in a corrupted world. Babies get cancer. What does that have to do with purity of heart?
But, Why would you EXPECT “Born again” believers to sin against one another? I would think we should be shocked, dismayed and broken over it.
Why would you not want to strive for the standard of purity even though we will never reach sinless perfection? Why do you think born again believers sinning against one another should be the norm until Jesus comes back?
People like you scare me because I saw the evil that comes out of your doctrine. “We can’t help sinning because we are saved sinners”. Lots of really bad stuff done to people in the Body because “well, we ARE sinners, you know”. It is glorying in sin. As if that makes people humble or something. I call it the Bill Clinton doctrine.
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
What were you thinking on for a minute that you said “no” to?
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On what basis does a believer ask for forgiveness when he falls short of pleasing God? To me, it sounds like pretty “good news” that “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and JUST to forgive us our sins and Cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” How is that set in contrast to the gospel? This is clearly a sanctification context, yet somehow, God is just in forgiving our sins. How can he do that if not by the sacrificial work of Christ?
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Because it’s forgiveness to restore fellowship, not salvation. See John 13–a washing of the feet rather than the whole body.
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“Close to pure” isn’t pure 1 not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material. 2 free of impurities. 3 innocent or morally good. 4 complete; nothing but: a shout of pure anger. 5 theoretical rather than practical: pure mathematics. 6 (of a sound) perfectly in tune and with a clear tone.
I am not denying that God’s people should walk uprightly and in line with the gospel. I believe God’s people when acting in character with themselves and their profession will walk uprightly and in line with the gospel. The reality I am talking about is that God’s people do not always act in line with our professions. If we continue to walk contrary to our profession, we need to be exhorted to examine ourselves to see whether we are indeed vitally united to Christ.
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Paul,
Can you tell me what you are referring to in this statement? “Let me think on that one for a minute: No.”
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Ok Randy from CR, your wearing everybody out again, especially me. I am going to cut you off for awhile. Run along now and take your meds, and maybe stop back next week.
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I don’t question that 1 John 1:9 is referring to the restoration of fellowship. It still involves asking forgiveness. Is there any basis on which God JUSTLY forgives and cleanses us?
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Yawn. Everything points back to justification. Yawn. I need a nap.
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“And Lydia, just so you know, you still sin too”
And here is the typical response and why it is impossible to have this conversation about sanctification. They immediately charge you with thinking ‘sinless perfection’. Or me thinking I don’t sin. It is tiresome but it is a great “conversation” stopper.
Here is another way to look at it: I have been a Born Again believer for about 20 years. If I am not sinning much less from the time I was born again to today, there is a serious problem.
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Lydia,
The question is, why would you think you can find a “Pure church” (“Close to pure” isn’t pure . Pure is not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material.) when you aren’t completely pure? I have been a part of some really good churches, but I have never found one that had no problems and no people sinning against other people. Such churches simply don’t exist this side of eternity.
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Paul,
Did you wake up yet? I want to know what you were talking about when you wrote, “Let me think on that one for a minute: No.”
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Something about correcting Bill.
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Being pure is not about having no problems. That is silly. We live in a corrupted world. Babies get cancer. What does that have to do with purity of heart?
But, Why would you EXPECT “Born again” believers to sin against one another? I would think we should be shocked, dismayed and broken over it.
Why would you not want to strive for the standard of purity even though we will never reach sinless perfection? Why do you think born again believers sinning against one another should be the norm until Jesus comes back?
People like you scare me because I saw the evil that comes out of your doctrine. “We can’t help sinning because we are saved sinners”. Lots of really bad stuff done to people in the Body because “well, we ARE sinners, you know”. It is glorying in sin. As if that makes people humble or something. I call it the Bill Clinton doctrine.
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It is so nice to visit a site where there is a free interchange of ideas without fear of being banned because you disagree with the prevalent view.
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You don’t look banned to me, I can see your comment.
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