John Piper Show and Tell
SHOW
TELL
For some strange reason, evangelicals continue to tolerate John Piper’s bizarre teachings—including the belief that Christians are still dead in trespasses and sins. However, and per the usual, he chooses his words very carefully so as to not come right out with stating it. Nevertheless, just in case you think he is speaking of the unregenerate, consider that he says: “….why you would call dead people to do things.” If he had the unregenerate in mind, this is certainly a strange choice of words. One might also think to himself: “Wasn’t Lazarus a believer?”
Furthermore, Piper shows his close kinship with Sonship Theology with the whole concept of “speaking life into people.”
And by the way, what’s the difference between what he is saying in the video and this description of metaphysical Christian Science: “In metaphysics the higher rules the lower. What we control in the spiritual realm will manifest in the physical. This process is done by seeing or speaking, affirmations. In the word faith philosophy words have power, they contain the force when spoken in faith…. The concept is to have it birthed in the spiritual realm first and then it will come about in the natural. As one takes the Scripture believing and confessing it the process of supernatural faith begins. One is to speak what they want into existence.”
And no John Piper verbiage would be complete without a direct contradiction to the plain sense of Scripture. He says we “can’t please God” when the apostle Paul makes it clear that we “make it our goal to please Him” and will be judged accordingly at the Bema Seat judgement.
paul
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
“Lydia, the Piper is not addressing the message to the audience. He is answering a question. This is not a sermon. It is a Q&A session. Seriously, you guys are letting your dislike of Piper drive you to false conclusions. Are there statements that he makes that need to be called into question? Sure, but what you think you hear in this video is not there.”
Sorry guys, I was enamoured with Piper for a few years and listened to him all the time. I know what he teaches. I started really questioning him after a while. I remember being really freaked out at the silliness of “Christian Hedonism” and his “Scream of the Damned” sermon with CJ Mahaney at a conference a while back. But his absolute most bizarro world teaching was when he said that if a husband asked his wife to be involved in a threesome, she should say, “Honey, I really want you to be my leader but I cannot do that”. Huh? Help!
Uh…errr….I would counsel her that her husband is really totally depraved, not saved and she should go to the doctor immediately to be checked out. Then leave until he is on his knees in repentance. I will try to find the clip but it is interesting that no where in the clip does he say he is talking about Christians or not with this advice. And THAT makes a huge difference. But Piper’s audience for the clip were….Christians!
There are other things but I won’t go there for now. I will say I have family members who went to Piper to intern with him and the fruit of that has been bizarre.
LikeLike
Lydia,
“Scream of the Damned”???????????? Tell me more! Sounds like post material.
> —–Original Message—– >
LikeLike
“But you might want to consider reacting to statements you hear and not to what Paul [not the Apostle] tells you they are saying. Always ask yourself the question, “Did this person actually say what Paul has claimed?” Most of the time, you will find he has misrepresented the person he is criticizing.”
Nice try, Randy. I am no follower of any man or woman. I don’t do “guru’s” anymore. Jesus is my king. I follow Christ. I just found this blog a few days ago. I am just stunned that someone else sees it, too! I am not even a Calvinist so Paul would have other problems with me.
And I said this on another thread but will emphasize here that these guys should be clear on who they are talking about. Believers or unbelievers. They are paid to communicate the Word, clearly. I found this to be a huge problem with Mohler and his culture war writings. he never says if he is talking about Christians or not. He makes blanket statements about “people” and what they are doing that is wrong.
When Piper is talking about the husband who wants his wife to have a threesome, was he a professing believer or not? Piper never says.
Can you tell me why Piper is worried about this hypothetical woman’s submission to a creep but not the creeps salvation? He says the guy should be disciplined by the church. Seriously? Has he never read 1 Corin 5?
Did it every occur to you that you might have a blind spot concerning these guys? I know I did for a while.
LikeLike
Lydia,
“Can you tell me why Piper is worried about this hypothetical woman’s submission to a creep but not the creeps salvation? He says the guy should be disciplined by the church. Seriously? Has he never read 1 Corin 5?
Lydia, this is curious as NC believe you can bring unbelievers up on church discipline. I have firsthand knowledge of this.
> —–Original Message—– >
LikeLike
“BTW–commands (according to NC) are meant to show us what we can’t do so to drive us back to the cross. And also show us what Christ did for us –leading to obedience flowing from gratitude. Supposedly”
So, it is “Total Inability” AFTER we are Justified and have the indwelling Holy Spirit? I think not.
LikeLike
Lydia,
I am not a follower of these guys. Virtually everything I hear from them I hear from Paul. That is the problem. I look at what Paul says they are saying and what I hear them saying in his quotes or videos and they don’t say what he says they are saying. He does the same with my beliefs. He tells me what I believe rather than listening to what I actually believe. Then he reacts to what he assumes I believe. He is bearing false witness against me at least, if not against them.
BTW, if you are not a Calvinist, why not?
LikeLike
For example, he has referred to me as a “wicked Antinomian.” Can you show or can he show any evidence of that? If he can, let him bring it forth. If not, then he should be disciplined by the church.
LikeLike
Randy, Walter Chantry and Rev. Al Martin called your daddy a “neo-antinomian” and the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree.
> —–Original Message—– >
LikeLike
Lydia,
Please explain what is wrong with this statement: “Honey, I really want you to be my leader but I cannot do that”. My understanding of biblical submission is that wives are to be submissive to their husbands as part of their submission to Christ. This obtains unless and until the husband asks his wife to disobey Christ in obeying him. Then she must obey Christ rather than her husband.
LikeLike
Paul,
Was the regenerated Apostle Paul a sinner? Was Lydia wrong when she said she was a wicked sinner redeemed by the grace of God or something to that effect, did you take issue with her?
The term “redeemed” can refer to more than one aspect of Christ’s redemptive work. Actually, redemption refers not only to being purchased but to being set free by the payment of a ransom. But the term can be used generally of the entirety of Christ’s redeeming work, as in Redemption: Accomplished and Applied by John Murray. When I speak of being redeemed by Christ, that redemption includes everything he accomplished for me including implanting a new governing principle of life in my soul.
Paul, my problem with you is that you are a poor researcher. You do not do a good job of documenting your claims. Time after time you have misrepresented my views. Do your homework. Find quotes from these guys in which they say what you are claiming. If you can’t do that, don’t make your claims. I know how you have assumed you knew what I believe and virtually every time you got it wrong.
Give me a quote where Chandler denies the reality of the new birth. Don’t
LikeLike
“BTW, if you are not a Calvinist, why not?’
Perhaps because I only know Calvinism through Piper, Mahaney, Mohler, etc? What is Calvinism? Calvin was part of a state church, baptized babies and believed in the sacral system. That is certainly not who I am. Or do we just take certain parts of Calvin and claim that? Kind of confusing for someone checking into it as I did.
If it is TULIP, I question the way they present total depravity as total inability that lasts forever but keeping in mind I believe that salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit. I have more of a problem with limited atonement and the definition of election yet I do believe it and see Ephesians as the clear teaching.
Why not just call it Christianity? Why does some guy who was part of the petit council of Geneva where they regulated how many courses people could have for one meal, get the credit for what is of God?
What will we have in the future? Grudemism? Piperism? I have not read all the Institutes. Perhaps I will sometime soon.
Conversely, I do not believe we simply “accept Jesus into our heart”. Or that saying a sinner’s prayer lead to instant salvation as so many teach. Salvation is a supernatural act. But I am very involved in my sanctification.
Will the real Calvinism please stand up?:o)
LikeLike
I can tell you that if I didn’t rethink my Calvinism after what I have been through the past 3 years–I would be nuts. Certainly not election, but for instance: “Christ alone”? In regard to whom? That sola has never been qualified. Does this pertain to justification only, sanctification, or both? What about the Father and the Holy Spirit?
> —–Original Message—– >
LikeLike
Paul, “Scream of the Damned” was preached at the Resolve Conference a few years back. If I remember correctly, both Piper and Mahaney preached on that theme. Steve Camp wrote a blog post about it, too.
http://stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/2008/07/scream-of-damned-was-jesus-really.html
look at the comments. 153 comments on parsing what they meant. Sheesh!
I did, at the time, go to the Resolve website and listen to the sermons. I cannot find the link now. It may not still be online.
I thought they were being provacative and shock jocks at the time. Now, I am seeing it more clearly.
LikeLike
Lydia, ya, I checked it out. The information literally upset my stomach and I began to feel ill. I will be posting on it tomorrow.
> —–Original Message—– >
LikeLike
Randy, I am not going down a submission rabbit trail with you. But I would like for you to tell me if the pervert in Piper’s story is a professing believer or not? Do we assume it since Piper talks about discipline?
Start watching for this….do they make clear distinctions in who they are talking about when they speak? Believers or unbelievers. Many times I would listen and think…believers are doing these things? They think this is normal for a Born Again believer?????
LikeLike
I will say it again in order to supply a perfect example in regard to what Lydia is saying. Listen to the video, “The Gospel in 6 Minutes.” In his close, he is talking about a general call to salvation–then he starts talking in regard to how Christians are “strengthened” without any transition. The conclusion, without saying it because there is no transition, is that those who attempt to be strengthened in their Christian walk by anything other than the gospel– need to get saved. He says it without saying it by virtue of the missing transition. In my book–it’s deliberate deception.
> —–Original Message—– >
LikeLike