John Piper Show and Tell
SHOW
TELL
For some strange reason, evangelicals continue to tolerate John Piper’s bizarre teachings—including the belief that Christians are still dead in trespasses and sins. However, and per the usual, he chooses his words very carefully so as to not come right out with stating it. Nevertheless, just in case you think he is speaking of the unregenerate, consider that he says: “….why you would call dead people to do things.” If he had the unregenerate in mind, this is certainly a strange choice of words. One might also think to himself: “Wasn’t Lazarus a believer?”
Furthermore, Piper shows his close kinship with Sonship Theology with the whole concept of “speaking life into people.”
And by the way, what’s the difference between what he is saying in the video and this description of metaphysical Christian Science: “In metaphysics the higher rules the lower. What we control in the spiritual realm will manifest in the physical. This process is done by seeing or speaking, affirmations. In the word faith philosophy words have power, they contain the force when spoken in faith…. The concept is to have it birthed in the spiritual realm first and then it will come about in the natural. As one takes the Scripture believing and confessing it the process of supernatural faith begins. One is to speak what they want into existence.”
And no John Piper verbiage would be complete without a direct contradiction to the plain sense of Scripture. He says we “can’t please God” when the apostle Paul makes it clear that we “make it our goal to please Him” and will be judged accordingly at the Bema Seat judgement.
paul
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
Paul, if you listen, this is about justification. To get to where you have gotten from this, you have to read into Piper’s words.
What you have to admit is that you took Piper out of context here. In your post, you do not comment that he was answering a question. You did not research to see what the question was. It would have taken you less than five minutes to find it.
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Scott,
Piper routinely talks as if justification and sanctification are the same thing (because that’s what he believes). Your case is that because it was a justification question–gee whiz–everything in his answer must pertain to that. Again, I point to the Augustine quote. Again, why does Piper refer to the Bible as a whole? Again, why does he refer to “commands” instead of the gospel? He was talking about both, that’s why.
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Scott,
I tried to tell you and you wouldn’t listen. A person doesn’t believe what he says he believes. He believes what Paul in his infinite wisdom has decided he believes. He has decided I am a wicked antinomian who thinks unbelievers have not responsibility to obey in the process of sanctification…He is also convinced I don’t believe in regeneration and I could go on. If you would like to see what I really believe, I invite you to visit my page. http://www.new-covenant-theology.org.
Randy Seiver
BTW, you are right on and Paul is delusional.
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Yawn
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Paul,
It doesn’t make any difference what Augustine was talking about. The issue is what was Piper talking about? You have to be brain dead to miss that he was talking about proclaiming the gospel to the unconverted and whether they have responsibility is they are dead. I told you you were losing it and you wouldn’t believe me. My wife thinks you are “Criminal Minds” scary. I have told you before and I am telling you again. Talk to your buddy Jay Adams and get some help. Your are off your rocker my friend.
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“Paul, if you listen, this is about justification. To get to where you have gotten from this, you have to read into Piper’s words.
What you have to admit is that you took Piper out of context here. In your post, you do not comment that he was answering a question. You did not research to see what the question was. It would have taken you less than five minutes to find it.”
Guys, who is Piper’s audience? Piper is almost always talking to professing believers (mainly pastors!) in these venues. That is his main audience!
Mohler does this all the time in an opposite way with his culture war stuff…he talks about how bad people are in the culture but never makes it clear if he is talking about professing believers or not. So, why do we expect unbelievers to act like believers? I have never understood that.
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Not only that Lydia, the Chandler clip is from the same Q and A at the same conference. After all of these guys trounced me about “reading into what Piper was really saying,” we have Chandler, sitting right next to him; for all practical purposes, saying that we are still dead in our trespasses and sins.This is why we don’t go to Susan’s (before we were married) church anymore. Finally, we said: “Hey look, we are saved already. We are not going to come to church to hear the gospel every Sunday–we are going were we can get some teaching.”
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So why are these “teachers of the Word” expecting “believers” to keep acting and thinking of themselves as unbelievers?
I left the seeker world over this same thing. Believe it or not, they are very close in thinking but have a totally different language. Sins are mere mistakes and no big deal. Sin more because Grace abounds! That is what they are really teaching aside from a “moralistic” Christianity of works. Oh, and God is never a God of Wrath. Sanctification or the indwelling Holy Spirit was never mentioned. About the only sin you could commit in the seeker world was to disagree with the pastor, publicly. And I am not speaking of one seeker church. I was doing consulting with many mega’s and saw the nasty underbelly of the whole system.
So, I went looking at the new Reformed movement because I thought they took God seriously and found them stuck at the cross never moving on to a new life in Christ. (Except for Christian hedonism which seems to be a clever replacement for the Holy Spirit?)
As I told my family when I left the seeker world: Salvation is free but sanctification is hard stuff. It is dying to self. It is brokeness and joy all mixed up together. I should sin less and less as I mature in Christ with the indwelling Holy Spirit…not stay depraved.
What do the NC folks do with the book of 1 John?
I have another view of this: If they preach total depravity AFTER being saved then it is easier to control people. You cannot control people who have the indwelling Holy Spirit and are growing in maturity in Christ. You cannot control people who are feasting on meat.
I came to see it as the same celebrity sin trap I saw in the seeker world. Fame, power, influence, money, etc. I think the NC gurus are catching up with the Rick Warren’s, Billy Hybels, etc. Do people have a clue how much money is in Christian marketing? It is a ton, folks. But the real sin trap is the influence and power. Being on stage.
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Some profound thoughts Lydia. BTW–commands (according to NC) are meant to show us what we can’t do so to drive us back to the cross. And also show us what Christ did for us –leading to obedience flowing from gratitude. Supposedly.
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Lydia, the Piper is not addressing the message to the audience. He is answering a question. This is not a sermon. It is a Q&A session. Seriously, you guys are letting your dislike of Piper drive you to false conclusions. Are there statements that he makes that need to be called into question? Sure, but what you think you hear in this video is not there.
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Well then Scott, Matt Chandler took care of that: http://wp.me/pmd7S-SI
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Lydia,
I am not a defender of Piper. He is a fallible human being like the rest of us. Still, Scott is right. He was answering a question about whether we should command dead sinners to believe the gospel. Any good Calvinist, new or old, would have answered the same way. But you might want to consider reacting to statements you hear and not to what Paul [not the Apostle] tells you they are saying. Always ask yourself the question, “Did this person actually say what Paul has claimed?” Most of the time, you will find he has misrepresented the person he is criticizing.
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Randy,
I am not going to give these guys a pass because they say what they say in doublespeak and nuance. If they are unclear–that’s on them. Piper never refers to the unsaved or unregenerate in the video, but only “people.” And these guys constantly answer questions from the perspective of their own prisms. Piper’s favorite trick is to talk about justification, and then start referring to believers without a transition. An excellent example of this is his “Gopsel in 6 Minutes” video.
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Paul,
I have watched the Chandler video four times now and I have not yet heard him say we, believers, are “dead in trespasses and sins.” Could you please produce a written transcript of that video and point out where he makes that statement so we can all reject it as untrue? I heard him say we are wicked sinners redeemed by Christ and sinners still in need of grace, but with that I wholeheartedly agree. As I have told you so many times before, you need to produce actual quotes from these people, not just tell us what you think they are saying.
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Randy,
“Redeemed” doesn’t mean the same thing as “born again.” Redemption refers to us being purchased by Christ. Like all NC, Chandler denies the significance of the new birth. The Bible makes it clear: we are not “wicked sinners.” We are new creatures. His statement is blatantly anti-biblical.
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Paul,
Piper was perfectly clear. You are muddled. Give it up and admit you were wrong. Listen to the question he was asked and perhaps even you can understand
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He’s ambiguous–that’s on him. If he uses the word “unsaved” or unregenerate” or “lost” once, I agree, but he didn’t and we all know why.
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Listen to the question Paul. You ignored the context and the question. I don’t think you could be that stupid. You must just be stubborn. Obedience does flow from gratitude. Live with it.
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