Everyone “born of a woman” is “born under the Law”, otherwise, the words of scripture pointing this fact of being born of a woman, and connecting it with being “born under the Law”, would be meaningless, trivial information. Everyone is born under the old covenant, which wasn’t given at Sinai, as is generally taught, but rather as an examination of scrupture reveals, at Sinai it was simply clarified, written in stone, to make sin more obvious, to make men’s plight apart from Christs fullfilling the law for us, and paying it’s penalty for us, more obvious. The way one gets out from under the Law as a means of eternal life, is by being born again, born of the Spirit, and thus, one comes under the New Covenant, the covenant of Grace.
The covenant of works, or old covenant, both terms for the same thing, was given first to Adam before the fall, the new covenant, or covenant of grace, was given to Adam after the fall when Christ was first preached as the “seed of the woman”. Thus you have the first covenant and second covenant, old covenant and new covenant, covent of works, and covenant of grace, both given and taught first in Genesis, and thus salvation is taught as being impossible by works from the very beginning, and salvation by grace is the same from the beginning of the Bible to the end of the Bible. Only faith in Christ has ever saved…Genesis to Revelation.
No end of confusion results from thinking that that the Old Covenant was given first to the Jews at Sinai, and the New Covenant was given at Christs first Advent. This new teaching was started by J N Darby, and popularized by Scofield, and it was because of poor knowledge of the “Whole Counsel of the Word of God”, which Paul declared to the Ephesians as the one thing that he “did not shrink back from” and thus hung the integrity of his ministry. Prior to Darby and Scofield, all the most godly men of the Reformation/Post reformation taught the prepetuity of the Law, as is shown in the London Baptist confession of 1689, Westminster Confession, etc.
Start at the beginning of the Bible and Go through the OT and look for the teachings on OT Law such as Abel’s sacrifice being prefered over Cains, because it involved a blood sacrifice that forshadowed Christ’s work. Where did Abel learn that? No doubt God told him and his family. Look for the many other indications of such teaching about the cross in types and shadows way before Sinai…Noah’s animal sacrifice when leaving the ark, Abrahams sacrifices in the desert, and of his own son…..which was at the last minute stopped by God…Abrahams only son not withheld, just as God’s own Son not withheld….types and shadows. The Law was never given to save man, it was given to teach him about his own sin, God’s Glory and holiness, and God’s provision for his sinfulness….Christ. It is so simple a child can see it, were it not for false teachers and ignorance of ALL of GODS Word on the matter.
Where did Abrham learn about circumcision if it was only given at Sinai? What was circumcision supposed to teach? Do not the scriptures teach us it teaches circumcision of “the heart, not the flesh” is necessary for salvation? Where did Abraham learn not to lie as he did to Abemilech about his wife? Did not God teach these commandments and types and shadows well before he formally gave them to the Jews as a nation, and expanded them for clarity at Sinai? Of course He did.
The most fundamental teaching of hermeneutics is that scripture interprets scripture. In other words, before a doctrine can be established on any subject, ALL the RELEVANT verses that deal with that doctrine/truth, must be taken together and reconciled. This MUST be done with the Doctrine of Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant as in every other doctrine. Because most modern teachers don’t do this, but pick and choose a verse here and there, to support a point, rather that “declare the whole counsel of the Word of God” great confusion and error has resulted. Older, more godly men never did this, the very men that modern teachers quote to give credence to their false teachings. It is shameful what is passed off as Biblical teaching now.
John Bunyan covers all these points in great detail in his Doctrine of Law and Grace Unfolded, but NCT types ignore and lie about what he taught and use his good name to have a “Bunyan Conference” where they lie about what he taught. It is shameful.
Waldron has generally done a good job exposing the errors of NCT and defending the decalogue, but even he is under attack, and has backed off somewhat from the teaching on observing the Lords day because his people don’t want to hear it, and “what to have their ears tickled” because this is the time of “lawlessness” and the final set up for the return of “the Lawless one”.
May God give his true children “ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches”.
paulspassingthoughts said, on July 15, 2011 at 11:30 AM
Gerry,
Thanks for this. Would you consider what you have written here, “Covenant Theology”?
Certainly, a lot of what you have written here clicks. What has caught my attention is the
fact that Hebrews 8 refers to the “first covenant” which is obviously NOT Sinai. So, what
you are saying here makes a lot of sense. This is important because I am a teacher in our
church and Southern Baptist are not taught about the covenants; which of course, is
shameful and has led to the open acceptance of NC and other errors.
Also notable is Galatians 3:10-28. Some very interesting things there.
1. The law imprisoned everything under sin.
2. The law was given because of transgressions.
3. The law is a guardian.
Gerry–if you get time, I would like your take on the Galations text.
Well Paul, I have not forgotten my promise to address your comments and the text you mentioned, and have almost gotten together a response, but I’m not sure I will get it done tonight as I had hoped.
It is good that you asked and I want to do your question justice and answer as best I am able.
So rather than hurry it, I hope you will forgive me if I take another day or so to finish it, and post it then.
About a month ago, I started to respond to your request for comment on the verses you reference above with respect to the ideas I had shared in my post above, and also in previous posts where I had referenced John Bunyan’s work: “The Doctrine of Law and Grace Unfolded”, especially as it relates to antinomianism, and the perpetuity of the Moral Law. “The Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul”, Ps 119.
I had finished my response to your initial comments in some detail, and then began to respond to your questions about the specific verses in Galatians.
But as I did so, I reread several of your old posts, and also some of you knew ones, and sensed that there is little real interest at this time in these things, nor, it would seem, do you have time to persue them, as occupied as you are with other matters. Not that you don’t have some interest, but it just doesn’t seem to engage you as does your current projects. It occured to me also as I read on your site that the exposing of error is a good thing, but just as in a true unfolding of scripture, there must be balance, lest that which seems to be good, becomes otherwise. In other words, what I find missing on your site is the right counter balance to the untruths you reveal.
When the Lord saved me out of false teaching, He impressed me with the importance not only of recognizing error, but also of finding truth. That is why I read the men I do, for they not only reveal error, but more importantly, at the same time they share truth. There is quite a bit of the former here, but very little of the latter, nor, as I said before, have I found much of an interest in the latter, at least as revealed on your site.
For example, when I first read a little of MacArthur several years ago, it was clear to me that he was not a “wise master builder”. The same is true for Piper and the other men you mention. Thus, I wasted no more time on them. Similarly, when I found the writings of Ryle, Edwards, Bunyan, Mueller, Newton and Payson and Goodwin, just the opposite was obvious, for these men wrote with insight and conviction that these modern men, no matter their current popularity, simply can’t touch. As such, I read and studied all they wrote and compared it with scripture and continue to do so today. There are many ways to waste time….and one of them is dwelling endlessly on error in lieu of filling the mind with truth, and Satan lays his snares in many subtle ways.
With these and other thoughts in mind, I have decided to forego any further response to your email as the authors I have shared with you do a better job of sharing that truth than I could, and if the Spirit should direct you to them you will no doubt be better informed than if I attempted a response of my own. And, as I said before, I am still quite occupied with absorbing the wisdom of these “interpreters, one in a thousand” whom God has graciously provided to feed His flock, and “who, though dead, yet speaketh”..
Thank you for your interest and for your contribution to my understanding of the connection between these various modern false teachers.
Actually, I must say that this issue has forced me into deeper study and I have learned things that I would have never known. Your right, which can be easily observed by walking into any book store. People clearly want to listen to men more than God. Blessings,
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
So, if the law is still in force, and I think Waldron makes that point well, how can the covenant(s) attached to the law be abolished?
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They’re not abolished.
Everyone “born of a woman” is “born under the Law”, otherwise, the words of scripture pointing this fact of being born of a woman, and connecting it with being “born under the Law”, would be meaningless, trivial information. Everyone is born under the old covenant, which wasn’t given at Sinai, as is generally taught, but rather as an examination of scrupture reveals, at Sinai it was simply clarified, written in stone, to make sin more obvious, to make men’s plight apart from Christs fullfilling the law for us, and paying it’s penalty for us, more obvious. The way one gets out from under the Law as a means of eternal life, is by being born again, born of the Spirit, and thus, one comes under the New Covenant, the covenant of Grace.
The covenant of works, or old covenant, both terms for the same thing, was given first to Adam before the fall, the new covenant, or covenant of grace, was given to Adam after the fall when Christ was first preached as the “seed of the woman”. Thus you have the first covenant and second covenant, old covenant and new covenant, covent of works, and covenant of grace, both given and taught first in Genesis, and thus salvation is taught as being impossible by works from the very beginning, and salvation by grace is the same from the beginning of the Bible to the end of the Bible. Only faith in Christ has ever saved…Genesis to Revelation.
No end of confusion results from thinking that that the Old Covenant was given first to the Jews at Sinai, and the New Covenant was given at Christs first Advent. This new teaching was started by J N Darby, and popularized by Scofield, and it was because of poor knowledge of the “Whole Counsel of the Word of God”, which Paul declared to the Ephesians as the one thing that he “did not shrink back from” and thus hung the integrity of his ministry. Prior to Darby and Scofield, all the most godly men of the Reformation/Post reformation taught the prepetuity of the Law, as is shown in the London Baptist confession of 1689, Westminster Confession, etc.
Start at the beginning of the Bible and Go through the OT and look for the teachings on OT Law such as Abel’s sacrifice being prefered over Cains, because it involved a blood sacrifice that forshadowed Christ’s work. Where did Abel learn that? No doubt God told him and his family. Look for the many other indications of such teaching about the cross in types and shadows way before Sinai…Noah’s animal sacrifice when leaving the ark, Abrahams sacrifices in the desert, and of his own son…..which was at the last minute stopped by God…Abrahams only son not withheld, just as God’s own Son not withheld….types and shadows. The Law was never given to save man, it was given to teach him about his own sin, God’s Glory and holiness, and God’s provision for his sinfulness….Christ. It is so simple a child can see it, were it not for false teachers and ignorance of ALL of GODS Word on the matter.
Where did Abrham learn about circumcision if it was only given at Sinai? What was circumcision supposed to teach? Do not the scriptures teach us it teaches circumcision of “the heart, not the flesh” is necessary for salvation? Where did Abraham learn not to lie as he did to Abemilech about his wife? Did not God teach these commandments and types and shadows well before he formally gave them to the Jews as a nation, and expanded them for clarity at Sinai? Of course He did.
The most fundamental teaching of hermeneutics is that scripture interprets scripture. In other words, before a doctrine can be established on any subject, ALL the RELEVANT verses that deal with that doctrine/truth, must be taken together and reconciled. This MUST be done with the Doctrine of Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant as in every other doctrine. Because most modern teachers don’t do this, but pick and choose a verse here and there, to support a point, rather that “declare the whole counsel of the Word of God” great confusion and error has resulted. Older, more godly men never did this, the very men that modern teachers quote to give credence to their false teachings. It is shameful what is passed off as Biblical teaching now.
John Bunyan covers all these points in great detail in his Doctrine of Law and Grace Unfolded, but NCT types ignore and lie about what he taught and use his good name to have a “Bunyan Conference” where they lie about what he taught. It is shameful.
Waldron has generally done a good job exposing the errors of NCT and defending the decalogue, but even he is under attack, and has backed off somewhat from the teaching on observing the Lords day because his people don’t want to hear it, and “what to have their ears tickled” because this is the time of “lawlessness” and the final set up for the return of “the Lawless one”.
May God give his true children “ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches”.
In Him,
gerry
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Gerry,
Thanks for this. Would you consider what you have written here, “Covenant Theology”?
Certainly, a lot of what you have written here clicks. What has caught my attention is the
fact that Hebrews 8 refers to the “first covenant” which is obviously NOT Sinai. So, what
you are saying here makes a lot of sense. This is important because I am a teacher in our
church and Southern Baptist are not taught about the covenants; which of course, is
shameful and has led to the open acceptance of NC and other errors.
Also notable is Galatians 3:10-28. Some very interesting things there.
1. The law imprisoned everything under sin.
2. The law was given because of transgressions.
3. The law is a guardian.
Gerry–if you get time, I would like your take on the Galations text.
paul
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Dear Paul:
Yes, there are some very interesting things in the Galatians passages you mention.
I will try to respond sometime this weekend with the Lord’s help.
I thank Him for your asking.
In Him,
gerry
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Well Paul, I have not forgotten my promise to address your comments and the text you mentioned, and have almost gotten together a response, but I’m not sure I will get it done tonight as I had hoped.
It is good that you asked and I want to do your question justice and answer as best I am able.
So rather than hurry it, I hope you will forgive me if I take another day or so to finish it, and post it then.
Hope you understand.
In Him,
gerry
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Take you time Gerry. No Hurry.
> —–Original Message—– >
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Dear Paul:
About a month ago, I started to respond to your request for comment on the verses you reference above with respect to the ideas I had shared in my post above, and also in previous posts where I had referenced John Bunyan’s work: “The Doctrine of Law and Grace Unfolded”, especially as it relates to antinomianism, and the perpetuity of the Moral Law. “The Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul”, Ps 119.
I had finished my response to your initial comments in some detail, and then began to respond to your questions about the specific verses in Galatians.
But as I did so, I reread several of your old posts, and also some of you knew ones, and sensed that there is little real interest at this time in these things, nor, it would seem, do you have time to persue them, as occupied as you are with other matters. Not that you don’t have some interest, but it just doesn’t seem to engage you as does your current projects. It occured to me also as I read on your site that the exposing of error is a good thing, but just as in a true unfolding of scripture, there must be balance, lest that which seems to be good, becomes otherwise. In other words, what I find missing on your site is the right counter balance to the untruths you reveal.
When the Lord saved me out of false teaching, He impressed me with the importance not only of recognizing error, but also of finding truth. That is why I read the men I do, for they not only reveal error, but more importantly, at the same time they share truth. There is quite a bit of the former here, but very little of the latter, nor, as I said before, have I found much of an interest in the latter, at least as revealed on your site.
For example, when I first read a little of MacArthur several years ago, it was clear to me that he was not a “wise master builder”. The same is true for Piper and the other men you mention. Thus, I wasted no more time on them. Similarly, when I found the writings of Ryle, Edwards, Bunyan, Mueller, Newton and Payson and Goodwin, just the opposite was obvious, for these men wrote with insight and conviction that these modern men, no matter their current popularity, simply can’t touch. As such, I read and studied all they wrote and compared it with scripture and continue to do so today. There are many ways to waste time….and one of them is dwelling endlessly on error in lieu of filling the mind with truth, and Satan lays his snares in many subtle ways.
With these and other thoughts in mind, I have decided to forego any further response to your email as the authors I have shared with you do a better job of sharing that truth than I could, and if the Spirit should direct you to them you will no doubt be better informed than if I attempted a response of my own. And, as I said before, I am still quite occupied with absorbing the wisdom of these “interpreters, one in a thousand” whom God has graciously provided to feed His flock, and “who, though dead, yet speaketh”..
Thank you for your interest and for your contribution to my understanding of the connection between these various modern false teachers.
In Him,
gerry lautner
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Thanks Gerry for your reply.
Actually, I must say that this issue has forced me into deeper study and I have learned things that I would have never known. Your right, which can be easily observed by walking into any book store. People clearly want to listen to men more than God. Blessings,
paul
> —–Original Message—– >
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