I was at that sermon and my understanding was he was encouraging people to stay in the hard times . He spoke about the fact that people might leave because it’s hard or they were there for Bob’s preaching instead of for worshiping God.It’s not a lack of discernment it’s a history with the church that I have 40+ years .
paulspassingthoughts said, on January 26, 2015 at 6:59 AM
Sarah,
“he was encouraging people to stay in the hard times.” Sarah, perhaps you should watch the video. He wasn’t “encouraging,” he was making a judgement regarding those who may not stay and questioning their very salvation. Also, between Piper and the muscleman elder, the redemptive historical alternative reality can be seen as well, viz, what happened wasn’t necessarily bad, it is just part of God’s predetermined gospel narrative. Sarah, deception doesn’t have a term limit–40+ years does NOT sanctify anything.
I think you might be the one doing the deceiving in your replies to Sarah. You know nothing….zero….about Redeemer, or the people there. You also know nothing about what happened, what took place in the weeks following, what took place after this sermon, or what has transpired since. It would be like you trying to comment on what you think happened in a book from the New Testament with only a few verses from the middle of the book. You couldn’t, nobody could.
Are you trying to pick apart this sermon(and our situation in general) for your own gain or pleasure of some sort?? If in fact you are a Christian(and I assume you are) and Sarah, myself and all the other people at RBC are Christians, doesn’t that make us brothers and sisters in Christ? How are you helping any of us???
Although you may have different beliefs than some of us do, i’m wondering how it is that you think you are helping yourself or any of the people who have commented that agree with you, in their walk with the Lord??
Piper, in your video clip above, was making the comparison that we shouldn’t leave “our God” even though Bob Glenn was gone. Orpah left when she heard what it would mean to stay with Naomi(dark and bleak). Ruth(RBC members) didn’t leave and he said it was weird, wonderful, beautiful and strange!!. That sermon wasn’t intended for the world wide audience of people who were interested in what happened at Redeemer, it was meant for the people at the church. Meaning, if you aren’t a member there, the message wasn’t directed to you….not because of anything other than you aren’t a member there. If a pastor spoke at your church, and gave a message to help your church understand more fully a situation particular to your church family, it wouldn’t necessarily make sense to me, unless I knew all the background that went along with it…and in our case, you don’t.
i think you owe Sarah an apology also. She is not a person who lacks discernment, nor someone that deserves your harshness. After all, i’m sure you would agree that you don’t know her or know anything about her, right?
paulspassingthoughts said, on January 26, 2015 at 6:47 PM
Greg,
let’s just cut to the chase here. I am helping myself, obeying God and not men, and helping others by pointing out that Protestantism is a false gospel. That’s right. Totally false. Kinda unfortunately, it took losing everything I had to send me on a journey for the truth apart from the orthodoxy I have been fed all of my life. No, I don’t owe Sarah an apology, I am trying to get her to do what I had to do: owe up to the fact that I was a follower of men and not God.
John Piper and your former pastor are heretics who teach the false gospel of PROGRESSIVE JUSTIFICATION. Your elders are also heretics that teach the same. Gregg and Sarah, come out from among them and be separate. Gather others of like mind and start a real church in somebody’s home. Stop obeying heretics and obey the Cheif Shepherd. The elders of your church have NO, I repeat, NO authority.
I very respectfully want to call you out on this. We do not believe, or teach, progressive justification at RBC. The Elders do not teach it either. Pretty sure Piper stands the same, but not positive. So, you are wrong about your previous comment. I will agree that we had some “following of a man” going on, but have to ask you this question: Other than God, are there any authorities in your life that you follow other than your own?
This is from our website, and it contradicts what you said:
4. From all eternity God decreed to justify all the elect,205 and Christ did, in the fullness of
time,206 die for their sins, and rise again for their justification.207 Nevertheless, they are
not personally justified until the Holy Spirit, in due time, actually applies Christ to
them.208
5. God continues to forgive the sins of those who are justified,209 and although they can
never fall from the state of justification,210 yet they may because of their sins, fall under
God’s fatherly displeasure.211 In that condition they will not usually have the light of
God’s countenance restored to them until they humble themselves, confess their sins, ask
for pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.212
205 Rom 8:29-30; 1 Pet 1:1-2.
206 Gal 4:4-5; 1 Tim 2:6.
207 Rom 4:25.
208 Rom 16:7; Titus 3:5-7.
209 Matt 6:12; 1 John 1:7, 9.
210 John 10:28.
211 Eph 4:30; Heb 12:4-13.
212 Ps 51; 1 John 1:9.23
6. The justification of
paulspassingthoughts said, on January 26, 2015 at 7:46 PM
Greg,
You can call me out on it, but you are wrong. John Piper is a Calvinist and was invited to your church for that reason. John Calvin clearly taught a progressive justification. What is our first clue? Go to 3.14.1 of the Institutes and tell me what the title of that chapter is. Also, in regard to #5, the continuation of forgiving sin under justification is progressive justification Greg. There is no law in justification and where there is no law there is no sin. Secondly, of course they don’t believe you can lose your justification–if you weren’t elected you never had it. Calvin, like John Piper et al, believe that sins in the Chrsitian life remove us from grace and we must continually return to the same gospel that saved us in order to stay saved. I have these guys on tape saying this all over the place. Ref: see pages 19 and 20. http://www.7questions.org/its-not-about-election-read-here.html
I’m not sure John Piper deserves any of our valuable time and attention after his tweet last week about rape and seduction somehow being similar. I think the man’s judgement should be severely questioned.
Regarding Redeemer, I think we all must do what we need to do. While those still at RBC might say those of us who leave have scales over our eyes, my own experience is that the scales were removed when I left and I began understanding how to love people-people who, in my previous years as a Christian, I was made to believe were unlovable and not to be befriended, but seen as targets of evangelism. I began to understand grace so much better when I left and began to see that I have value as a person. Years of Calvin made me feel so very small and ineffective. But, these are my experiences. I think God is doing big things by revealing to many, en masse, the dangers in the brand of theology to which Piper and RBC subscribe. Others would say I am deceived. In the end, I am following my conscience and heart, which they would also say are deceived. Alas.
Enough people have left RBC separately saying the same exact things after having truly bad experiences with the elders and enough have stayed to show that not everyone’s experiences there are the same. I do not know why some are spared and others not. Why some feel uplifted and others feel beat down. I do know this: The world is hurting. There is work to be done. Does it matter, in the end, who is right? Can we ever know? I lose no moments or sleep over RBC anymore and for that I am extraordinarily grateful. Someday Christ will tell us exactly who hit the nail on the head about it, til then I am going to busy myself doing the work that is here for us to do, within the walls of places like RBC and in the world at large. Peace to you all.
paulspassingthoughts said, on January 27, 2015 at 2:38 PM
Right, mankind is not incompetent by any stretch of the imagination (Gen 11:6). And “secular” does not equal “evil.” It may be weak in some ways, but that does not equal “evil.” Christ was weaker than He was in heaven when He came to earth as a man–that doesn’t mean He was evil. We do have remaining sin, but our bodies can be used for bad or good (Rom 12:1). And you are also right: we have ONE master who we will answer to, Christ, and no other person. And yes you can know the truth: just read the Bible for yourself and let the words say what they plainly say.
Good comment/thoughts–thanks for stopping by and sharing them.
“Others would say I am deceived. In the end, I am following my conscience and heart, which they would also say are deceived. Alas.”-sorry, I somehow deleted the end of my sentence 🙂
paulspassingthoughts said, on January 27, 2015 at 2:45 PM
Keeping a clear conscience in the New Testament is huuuuuge. Do a NT word search on “conscience.” You’re spot on. As a pastor, I have NEVER counseled anyone to go against their conscience and NEVER will.
“And yes you can know the truth: just read the Bible for yourself and let the words say what they plainly say.”
I will never be so proud to think I’ve got it all right. If you think about this very back and forth you find yourself in, you both believe that you are doing this very thing, reading the Bible and letting the words say what they plainly say. I think history shows that wars have started because of this exact sentiment. So, I am willing to say that my understanding may be flawed, but that shouldn’t stop me from moving forward. And that was my point. If we waste all our time here trying to prove to the others that we have it right and they have it wrong, we’ll accomplish a whole lot of nothing.
It concerns me to see Bob Glenn’s wife, as well as Douglas Phillips’ and I think, Ted Haggard’s, so determined to stand by these men. I suppose there are times when it’s appropriate, and I’m really trying not to judge. Having children left to raise can be a huge factor. But I’m afraid (from experience) that enormous spiritual pressure is being put on these women, even from within themselves, to “forgive” . And as we know, the church has a real problem determining the difference between forgiving and enabling.
There’s just something about those 3 in particular that doesn’t quite set right.
My wife and I were members @ Redeemer when RW was called to be pastor. They had just gotten rid of Michael Beasley, who was a bitter, legalistic control freak. RW visited our small group as a candidate and one of the first things he bragged about was his freedom to smoke cigars and drink. He was very pompous and worshiped John Piper. We had left Bethlehem after 4 years because of John. These men are false shepherds, always pointing people to themselves and each other, believe me they make a lot of money doing so. They do not believe nor teach the doctrines of Christ’s grace, they want people to be their slaves. Those Jesus saves, He saves to the uttermost. Humility is the sign of spiritual maturity, not their pride. Those God justifies, He sanctifies and glorifies. We are weak, but He is strong. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of true believers faith.
Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on May 2, 2015 at 10:32 PM
BCA,
Thanks for sharing, but to clarify, we here at PPT do not believe in sanctification by faith alone. Nor do we believe in sanctification by Christ’s work alone. And we certainly do not believe in sanctification by justification.
Romans 8:29-30 ~ For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Galatians 3:1-3 ~ O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
Ok, so you disagree; you do believe we are sanctified by justification, and you want to use those Scriptures to prove your point. What of it? We are not here to persuade people who don’t have any questions and are certain of what other people have told them. We minister to those who want to see for themselves what the truth is. I have no desire to judge you or persuade you–we all have one judge. This ministry is well beyond testing what we believe by engaging with committed Calvinists. Our goal is to now be challenged with honest questions from honest seekers who love the truth of Scripture and not orthodoxy. In short, we no longer supply a platform on this blog for the spewing of orthodoxy.
All you have is orthodoxy–turn the channel, you’re not going to hurt my feelings by doing so.
This is so eye opening to read this. I had no idea there were such rigid “rules” at RBC. Minneapolis what you described in the dinner meeting made me uncomfortable just to imagine the evening. When I went to hear RWG I always felt a certain lack of humility from him. Obviously he was impressive but i just couldn’t understand the fist pumping all through the songs. I wanted to be enthused by this but found myself feeling like he was unapproachable because of that. When I realize that while I was listening to his sermons he was actually having this affair it all starts to make sense. That’s what discernment is, that gut feeling you get that’s hard to explain.
The best understanding I get from the scriptures comes from Jesus words to the criminal (alleged) on the cross next to him. Today you will be in Paradise with me. Do we have to make it any more complicated than that?
Thanks for commenting, Jon. I hope that gut feeling you’re getting leads you beyond the realization of blatant hypocrisy, to understanding the false theology behind it, namely progressive justification as taught through the prism of a historical-redemptive interpretation of the scriptures. You get that and suddenly it all begins to make sense.
someone who loves Jesus said, on September 23, 2015 at 4:47 PM
I do not believe Piper would agree with many of the assertions about his point on the message. Slandering has helped no one but cause division. RW Glenn and Mark Driscoll are not good examples of new calvinism’s effects but the affects of a culture that worships leaders as paul warned not to do. Read Romans 9 for a week straight and you’ll agree with their theology… read Corinthians about the dangers of focusing on Apollos or Paul for a couple of days and you’ll see why these men fell.
Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on September 23, 2015 at 7:28 PM
SWLJ
What in the world are you talking about? The post has no assertions, the video speaks for itself. And I don’t need to read anything you are telling me to read you arrogant know-it-all, Glenn fell because he believes in a false gospel.
This blog is just one more example of Christians behaving badly. Most the comments here are as pompous and prideful as you are accusing others of being. It’s sad that your “theology” emboldens you to be callous and nasty, hiding behind the internet. May God reveal His grace into your lives.
Paul M. Dohse Sr. said, on November 14, 2015 at 8:03 AM
Sandra,
Your comment follows the same Reformed pattern we have seen here for years, and usually we don’t pass them through; comments are required to address the objective points of the post, not unctions based on Reformed ex-cathedra. You have no belief of your own, only what other people have told you. As far as hiding behind the internet, I have a weekly radio show with call-in. Why don’t you call in and we can discuss the theology of men that you hold to. I might add that many of your heroes refuse to debate me because of the progressive justification issue, and the fear that I will cite what Calvin actually wrote in the Institutes. Talking about hiding, your Jim Jones wannabes won’t debate me because I am not educated in their orthodoxy according to what they think I ought to think the Reformers said which is not really what they said. What they are really afraid of is I can read, and I would merely read from the Institutes regarding what Calvin really believed about salvation. Also, I really like this post because it gets under people’s skin, and that apparently includes you. The comments you alluded to are not the issue, the content and what it reveals is the issue. That’s what really bugs you. I guess that’s why Glenn emailed me and asked me to take it down. That would be a “no.” Moreover, pertaining to Reformed “theology,” as far as God revealing His grace to our lives, you have no way of knowing whether you are of the called elect class (temporarily illumined) or those gifted with perseverance, so what are you wishing on us? Right, a chance at entering God’s eternal lottery where the winners are announced at the final judgement.
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
I was at that sermon and my understanding was he was encouraging people to stay in the hard times . He spoke about the fact that people might leave because it’s hard or they were there for Bob’s preaching instead of for worshiping God.It’s not a lack of discernment it’s a history with the church that I have 40+ years .
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Sarah,
“he was encouraging people to stay in the hard times.” Sarah, perhaps you should watch the video. He wasn’t “encouraging,” he was making a judgement regarding those who may not stay and questioning their very salvation. Also, between Piper and the muscleman elder, the redemptive historical alternative reality can be seen as well, viz, what happened wasn’t necessarily bad, it is just part of God’s predetermined gospel narrative. Sarah, deception doesn’t have a term limit–40+ years does NOT sanctify anything.
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I think you might be the one doing the deceiving in your replies to Sarah. You know nothing….zero….about Redeemer, or the people there. You also know nothing about what happened, what took place in the weeks following, what took place after this sermon, or what has transpired since. It would be like you trying to comment on what you think happened in a book from the New Testament with only a few verses from the middle of the book. You couldn’t, nobody could.
Are you trying to pick apart this sermon(and our situation in general) for your own gain or pleasure of some sort?? If in fact you are a Christian(and I assume you are) and Sarah, myself and all the other people at RBC are Christians, doesn’t that make us brothers and sisters in Christ? How are you helping any of us???
Although you may have different beliefs than some of us do, i’m wondering how it is that you think you are helping yourself or any of the people who have commented that agree with you, in their walk with the Lord??
Piper, in your video clip above, was making the comparison that we shouldn’t leave “our God” even though Bob Glenn was gone. Orpah left when she heard what it would mean to stay with Naomi(dark and bleak). Ruth(RBC members) didn’t leave and he said it was weird, wonderful, beautiful and strange!!. That sermon wasn’t intended for the world wide audience of people who were interested in what happened at Redeemer, it was meant for the people at the church. Meaning, if you aren’t a member there, the message wasn’t directed to you….not because of anything other than you aren’t a member there. If a pastor spoke at your church, and gave a message to help your church understand more fully a situation particular to your church family, it wouldn’t necessarily make sense to me, unless I knew all the background that went along with it…and in our case, you don’t.
i think you owe Sarah an apology also. She is not a person who lacks discernment, nor someone that deserves your harshness. After all, i’m sure you would agree that you don’t know her or know anything about her, right?
Respectfully,
Gregg
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Greg,
let’s just cut to the chase here. I am helping myself, obeying God and not men, and helping others by pointing out that Protestantism is a false gospel. That’s right. Totally false. Kinda unfortunately, it took losing everything I had to send me on a journey for the truth apart from the orthodoxy I have been fed all of my life. No, I don’t owe Sarah an apology, I am trying to get her to do what I had to do: owe up to the fact that I was a follower of men and not God.
John Piper and your former pastor are heretics who teach the false gospel of PROGRESSIVE JUSTIFICATION. Your elders are also heretics that teach the same. Gregg and Sarah, come out from among them and be separate. Gather others of like mind and start a real church in somebody’s home. Stop obeying heretics and obey the Cheif Shepherd. The elders of your church have NO, I repeat, NO authority.
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I very respectfully want to call you out on this. We do not believe, or teach, progressive justification at RBC. The Elders do not teach it either. Pretty sure Piper stands the same, but not positive. So, you are wrong about your previous comment. I will agree that we had some “following of a man” going on, but have to ask you this question: Other than God, are there any authorities in your life that you follow other than your own?
This is from our website, and it contradicts what you said:
4. From all eternity God decreed to justify all the elect,205 and Christ did, in the fullness of
time,206 die for their sins, and rise again for their justification.207 Nevertheless, they are
not personally justified until the Holy Spirit, in due time, actually applies Christ to
them.208
5. God continues to forgive the sins of those who are justified,209 and although they can
never fall from the state of justification,210 yet they may because of their sins, fall under
God’s fatherly displeasure.211 In that condition they will not usually have the light of
God’s countenance restored to them until they humble themselves, confess their sins, ask
for pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.212
205 Rom 8:29-30; 1 Pet 1:1-2.
206 Gal 4:4-5; 1 Tim 2:6.
207 Rom 4:25.
208 Rom 16:7; Titus 3:5-7.
209 Matt 6:12; 1 John 1:7, 9.
210 John 10:28.
211 Eph 4:30; Heb 12:4-13.
212 Ps 51; 1 John 1:9.23
6. The justification of
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Greg,
You can call me out on it, but you are wrong. John Piper is a Calvinist and was invited to your church for that reason. John Calvin clearly taught a progressive justification. What is our first clue? Go to 3.14.1 of the Institutes and tell me what the title of that chapter is. Also, in regard to #5, the continuation of forgiving sin under justification is progressive justification Greg. There is no law in justification and where there is no law there is no sin. Secondly, of course they don’t believe you can lose your justification–if you weren’t elected you never had it. Calvin, like John Piper et al, believe that sins in the Chrsitian life remove us from grace and we must continually return to the same gospel that saved us in order to stay saved. I have these guys on tape saying this all over the place. Ref: see pages 19 and 20. http://www.7questions.org/its-not-about-election-read-here.html
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And by the way, not being under the authority of pastors equals being under my own authority? Really?
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I’m not sure John Piper deserves any of our valuable time and attention after his tweet last week about rape and seduction somehow being similar. I think the man’s judgement should be severely questioned.
Regarding Redeemer, I think we all must do what we need to do. While those still at RBC might say those of us who leave have scales over our eyes, my own experience is that the scales were removed when I left and I began understanding how to love people-people who, in my previous years as a Christian, I was made to believe were unlovable and not to be befriended, but seen as targets of evangelism. I began to understand grace so much better when I left and began to see that I have value as a person. Years of Calvin made me feel so very small and ineffective. But, these are my experiences. I think God is doing big things by revealing to many, en masse, the dangers in the brand of theology to which Piper and RBC subscribe. Others would say I am deceived. In the end, I am following my conscience and heart, which they would also say are deceived. Alas.
Enough people have left RBC separately saying the same exact things after having truly bad experiences with the elders and enough have stayed to show that not everyone’s experiences there are the same. I do not know why some are spared and others not. Why some feel uplifted and others feel beat down. I do know this: The world is hurting. There is work to be done. Does it matter, in the end, who is right? Can we ever know? I lose no moments or sleep over RBC anymore and for that I am extraordinarily grateful. Someday Christ will tell us exactly who hit the nail on the head about it, til then I am going to busy myself doing the work that is here for us to do, within the walls of places like RBC and in the world at large. Peace to you all.
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Right, mankind is not incompetent by any stretch of the imagination (Gen 11:6). And “secular” does not equal “evil.” It may be weak in some ways, but that does not equal “evil.” Christ was weaker than He was in heaven when He came to earth as a man–that doesn’t mean He was evil. We do have remaining sin, but our bodies can be used for bad or good (Rom 12:1). And you are also right: we have ONE master who we will answer to, Christ, and no other person. And yes you can know the truth: just read the Bible for yourself and let the words say what they plainly say.
Good comment/thoughts–thanks for stopping by and sharing them.
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I fixed it, mpls. 🙂
I so identify with what you wrote. Well spoken.
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Very well spoken.
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“Others would say I am deceived. In the end, I am following my conscience and heart, which they would also say are deceived. Alas.”-sorry, I somehow deleted the end of my sentence 🙂
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Keeping a clear conscience in the New Testament is huuuuuge. Do a NT word search on “conscience.” You’re spot on. As a pastor, I have NEVER counseled anyone to go against their conscience and NEVER will.
LikeLike
“And yes you can know the truth: just read the Bible for yourself and let the words say what they plainly say.”
I will never be so proud to think I’ve got it all right. If you think about this very back and forth you find yourself in, you both believe that you are doing this very thing, reading the Bible and letting the words say what they plainly say. I think history shows that wars have started because of this exact sentiment. So, I am willing to say that my understanding may be flawed, but that shouldn’t stop me from moving forward. And that was my point. If we waste all our time here trying to prove to the others that we have it right and they have it wrong, we’ll accomplish a whole lot of nothing.
LikeLike
It concerns me to see Bob Glenn’s wife, as well as Douglas Phillips’ and I think, Ted Haggard’s, so determined to stand by these men. I suppose there are times when it’s appropriate, and I’m really trying not to judge. Having children left to raise can be a huge factor. But I’m afraid (from experience) that enormous spiritual pressure is being put on these women, even from within themselves, to “forgive” . And as we know, the church has a real problem determining the difference between forgiving and enabling.
There’s just something about those 3 in particular that doesn’t quite set right.
LikeLike
My wife and I were members @ Redeemer when RW was called to be pastor. They had just gotten rid of Michael Beasley, who was a bitter, legalistic control freak. RW visited our small group as a candidate and one of the first things he bragged about was his freedom to smoke cigars and drink. He was very pompous and worshiped John Piper. We had left Bethlehem after 4 years because of John. These men are false shepherds, always pointing people to themselves and each other, believe me they make a lot of money doing so. They do not believe nor teach the doctrines of Christ’s grace, they want people to be their slaves. Those Jesus saves, He saves to the uttermost. Humility is the sign of spiritual maturity, not their pride. Those God justifies, He sanctifies and glorifies. We are weak, but He is strong. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of true believers faith.
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BCA,
Thanks for sharing, but to clarify, we here at PPT do not believe in sanctification by faith alone. Nor do we believe in sanctification by Christ’s work alone. And we certainly do not believe in sanctification by justification.
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These two passages are pretty clear.
Romans 8:29-30 ~ For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Galatians 3:1-3 ~ O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
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BCA,
Ok, so you disagree; you do believe we are sanctified by justification, and you want to use those Scriptures to prove your point. What of it? We are not here to persuade people who don’t have any questions and are certain of what other people have told them. We minister to those who want to see for themselves what the truth is. I have no desire to judge you or persuade you–we all have one judge. This ministry is well beyond testing what we believe by engaging with committed Calvinists. Our goal is to now be challenged with honest questions from honest seekers who love the truth of Scripture and not orthodoxy. In short, we no longer supply a platform on this blog for the spewing of orthodoxy.
All you have is orthodoxy–turn the channel, you’re not going to hurt my feelings by doing so.
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This is so eye opening to read this. I had no idea there were such rigid “rules” at RBC. Minneapolis what you described in the dinner meeting made me uncomfortable just to imagine the evening. When I went to hear RWG I always felt a certain lack of humility from him. Obviously he was impressive but i just couldn’t understand the fist pumping all through the songs. I wanted to be enthused by this but found myself feeling like he was unapproachable because of that. When I realize that while I was listening to his sermons he was actually having this affair it all starts to make sense. That’s what discernment is, that gut feeling you get that’s hard to explain.
The best understanding I get from the scriptures comes from Jesus words to the criminal (alleged) on the cross next to him. Today you will be in Paradise with me. Do we have to make it any more complicated than that?
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Thanks for commenting, Jon. I hope that gut feeling you’re getting leads you beyond the realization of blatant hypocrisy, to understanding the false theology behind it, namely progressive justification as taught through the prism of a historical-redemptive interpretation of the scriptures. You get that and suddenly it all begins to make sense.
LikeLike
I do not believe Piper would agree with many of the assertions about his point on the message. Slandering has helped no one but cause division. RW Glenn and Mark Driscoll are not good examples of new calvinism’s effects but the affects of a culture that worships leaders as paul warned not to do. Read Romans 9 for a week straight and you’ll agree with their theology… read Corinthians about the dangers of focusing on Apollos or Paul for a couple of days and you’ll see why these men fell.
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SWLJ
What in the world are you talking about? The post has no assertions, the video speaks for itself. And I don’t need to read anything you are telling me to read you arrogant know-it-all, Glenn fell because he believes in a false gospel.
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This blog is just one more example of Christians behaving badly. Most the comments here are as pompous and prideful as you are accusing others of being. It’s sad that your “theology” emboldens you to be callous and nasty, hiding behind the internet. May God reveal His grace into your lives.
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Sandra,
Your comment follows the same Reformed pattern we have seen here for years, and usually we don’t pass them through; comments are required to address the objective points of the post, not unctions based on Reformed ex-cathedra. You have no belief of your own, only what other people have told you. As far as hiding behind the internet, I have a weekly radio show with call-in. Why don’t you call in and we can discuss the theology of men that you hold to. I might add that many of your heroes refuse to debate me because of the progressive justification issue, and the fear that I will cite what Calvin actually wrote in the Institutes. Talking about hiding, your Jim Jones wannabes won’t debate me because I am not educated in their orthodoxy according to what they think I ought to think the Reformers said which is not really what they said. What they are really afraid of is I can read, and I would merely read from the Institutes regarding what Calvin really believed about salvation. Also, I really like this post because it gets under people’s skin, and that apparently includes you. The comments you alluded to are not the issue, the content and what it reveals is the issue. That’s what really bugs you. I guess that’s why Glenn emailed me and asked me to take it down. That would be a “no.” Moreover, pertaining to Reformed “theology,” as far as God revealing His grace to our lives, you have no way of knowing whether you are of the called elect class (temporarily illumined) or those gifted with perseverance, so what are you wishing on us? Right, a chance at entering God’s eternal lottery where the winners are announced at the final judgement.
Hit the bricks Ice Queen.
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