Just to be clear: Are you saying that infusion and imputation amount to the same thing as far as adhering to a linear gospel is concerned? (Barring sacraments, purgatory, etc.)
paulspassingthoughts said, on February 20, 2013 at 4:14 PM
Not sure I follow but in the linear gospel no imputation can be applied to the inner man. ANY enablement of the believer at all is the same as participation in justification. So, I think my answer to your question would be “yes.” The linchpin of the Reformed gospel hinges on nothing of grace being inside of us. Christ is “in us” by virtue of being in the same spirit realm as Christ.
Just when you think Piper cannot get anymore weird. He has to give the world a living testimony. I thought it looked like he was presenting himself as the 21st Century Calvin figure.
So, who paid for all this hype about himself? His DG donors of course. His vision for himself as some sort of global Apostle sounds s exspensive….so they open those wallets more?
Will the YRR folk ever see all this for what it is? Mega-egotism? Nope, a lot of young guys are going to want tobe just like him.
Maybe CJ can join him soon. He might be looking for a world renown preacher position.
paulspassingthoughts said, on February 20, 2013 at 6:05 PM
Lydia,
“I thought it looked like he was presenting himself as the 21st Century Calvin figure.” I believe this is his vision for the world. He’s delusional for sure.
In Chapter 16 of the Council Of Trent, it says: “Jesus…continually infuses strength into those justified, which strength always precedes, accompanies, and follows their good works, and without which they could not in any manner be pleasing and meritorious before God…”. So, in the Catholic view, it seems that there is something of grace being inside of us, but it is still Christ who is actually doing the good works, despite it saying “their good works.” So when you say “yes,” you mean that, despite superficial differences, infusion and imputation are saying the same things about Christ doing our good works for us?
paulspassingthoughts said, on February 20, 2013 at 6:01 PM
Jeff,
Exactly, that was the beef the Reformers had with Rome because they both hold to a linear gospel. Rome holds to a new birth that helps you finish justification (according to the Reformers). The Reformers reject this kind of new birth that would infuse grace into the believer–the believer remains a sinner and Christ is our sanctification: “Christ for us.” Piper et al claim that we are no different than Rome because we also believe in infused grace, BUT our new birth is in a sanctification that is totally separate from justification. So, sanctification can’t effect justification. We do not believe in a “golden chain” of salvation.
paulspassingthoughts said, on February 20, 2013 at 6:16 PM
Moreover, the Reformers had a problem with this because the law remains a standard for justification, so even if the HS helps you, because we are involved the perfect standard of law isn’t maintained. Therefore, even in a parallel gospel, they complain that the perfect standard of the law is not maintained in sanctification. Their view of the law necessitates a linear gospel for that reason.
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
Reblogged this on Clearcreek Chapel Watch.
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Piper’s hubris is quite breathtaking.
Just to be clear: Are you saying that infusion and imputation amount to the same thing as far as adhering to a linear gospel is concerned? (Barring sacraments, purgatory, etc.)
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Not sure I follow but in the linear gospel no imputation can be applied to the inner man. ANY enablement of the believer at all is the same as participation in justification. So, I think my answer to your question would be “yes.” The linchpin of the Reformed gospel hinges on nothing of grace being inside of us. Christ is “in us” by virtue of being in the same spirit realm as Christ.
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Just when you think Piper cannot get anymore weird. He has to give the world a living testimony. I thought it looked like he was presenting himself as the 21st Century Calvin figure.
So, who paid for all this hype about himself? His DG donors of course. His vision for himself as some sort of global Apostle sounds s exspensive….so they open those wallets more?
Will the YRR folk ever see all this for what it is? Mega-egotism? Nope, a lot of young guys are going to want tobe just like him.
Maybe CJ can join him soon. He might be looking for a world renown preacher position.
LikeLike
Lydia,
“I thought it looked like he was presenting himself as the 21st Century Calvin figure.” I believe this is his vision for the world. He’s delusional for sure.
LikeLike
In Chapter 16 of the Council Of Trent, it says: “Jesus…continually infuses strength into those justified, which strength always precedes, accompanies, and follows their good works, and without which they could not in any manner be pleasing and meritorious before God…”. So, in the Catholic view, it seems that there is something of grace being inside of us, but it is still Christ who is actually doing the good works, despite it saying “their good works.” So when you say “yes,” you mean that, despite superficial differences, infusion and imputation are saying the same things about Christ doing our good works for us?
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Jeff,
Exactly, that was the beef the Reformers had with Rome because they both hold to a linear gospel. Rome holds to a new birth that helps you finish justification (according to the Reformers). The Reformers reject this kind of new birth that would infuse grace into the believer–the believer remains a sinner and Christ is our sanctification: “Christ for us.” Piper et al claim that we are no different than Rome because we also believe in infused grace, BUT our new birth is in a sanctification that is totally separate from justification. So, sanctification can’t effect justification. We do not believe in a “golden chain” of salvation.
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Moreover, the Reformers had a problem with this because the law remains a standard for justification, so even if the HS helps you, because we are involved the perfect standard of law isn’t maintained. Therefore, even in a parallel gospel, they complain that the perfect standard of the law is not maintained in sanctification. Their view of the law necessitates a linear gospel for that reason.
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