Often Asked By Those Looking For a Church: How Do I Know If It Is New Calvinist Or Not?
“Really, number one and number six are the most significant answers to the reader’s question.”
New Calvinism is not only dangerous to one’s soul, it is very subtle, and its proponents are deliberately covert. A post on what to look for is overdue, and my thanks to the reader who wrote and reminded me of this need. First, know this: in our day, New Calvinist churches will be the rule and not the exception. When you visit a church, assume that it is in the process of being taken over by New Calvinists, or has been in that camp completely for a period of time. Churches that have been solidly New Calvinist for a number of years will have cult-like characteristics.
Now, let me first begin my list by specifically answering the readers question and then I will expand from there: “….and would like to have a few questions to ask a Pastor to be able to know for sure if he is or is not in the NC camp by how the questions are answered. At the top of your head what questions would you recommend be asked that would be very telling?”
1) The biggie: “What hermeneutic do you use when you are preaching? Do you use the grammatical historical hermeneutic, or the redemptive historical hermeneutic?” Whether the pastor is NC or not, a deer in the headlight look will follow because most parishioners of our day do not know any theology. Think about it for a moment. These are two very different ways of approaching the Bible with the results being radically different; but yet, 99% of the parishioners out there have no idea which one their pastor uses.
GHH seeks to be exegetic; all ideas about everything are drawn from the text. RHH has an eisegetic approach; the sole purpose of the Bible is to gain a deeper understanding of Christ. It is sometimes called the “Chrstocentric” hermeneutic.
If the pastor admits that he is RHH, he is a NC. If he becomes aloof, for example; “Well, why don’t you come and see what we are about at one of our services, and then if you still want to talk about theology, we can do that” (by the way, that’s an actual quote from a pastor in response to my question concerning his hermeneutics), he is suspect. If he claims to be both, he is also suspect. If he is NC, he will know the very second you asked that question that he does not want you in his church.
2) Ask him who his favorite teachers are (you may want to word the question in a different way). If aloofness follows, he is suspect. If his favorite teachers are the likes of John Piper et al, he is either undiscerning or NC. In other words, he’s suspect.
3) You can ask him about his view on obedience, but you have to ask it this way in order not to be roper-doped: “Does all legitimate obedience and duty come out of a deeper understanding of our salvation? And when it does, is it a ‘mere natural flow?’”
4) “Do you believe that we are sanctified (set apart) by contemplating the gospel that saved us, or colaboring with the Holy Spirit in applying the word to our life.”
Bottom line: a skilled NC pastor can get around all of these questions except question number one. Even then, he can claim that he uses both hermeneutics.
Things to Look For
5) Is everything going on in the church about the gospel and Jesus? Is all of the music about redemption? Are all the messages about salvation, even though it’s a Christian setting? Is God the Father and the Holy Spirit rarely mentioned?
6) Another biggie: The missing transition communication technique in teaching and conversation. Like number one, this is huge. A message will begin with the subject of our Christian walk, but then will move into the subject of salvation without a transition in subject, as if the two are the same thing. Really, number one and number six are the most significant answers to the reader’s question.
7) The either/or communication technique, or the missing option C communication technique. The classic example is this prayer I heard spoken by a New Calvinist elder: “Lord, forgive us for obeying you in our own efforts.” The prayer insinuates that it’s either all of our effort, or all of something else that we don’t need forgiveness for. New Calvinists use this communication technique over a wide spectrum of teachings.
The Danger Zone
8.) Don’t forget, New Calvinist elders believe they have authority over you if you are a professing Christian and you are in their neck of the woods. Never, never, never, never meet with an elder or a group of elders ALONE. Never. And document everything. If you find yourself trying to ascertain where a church is doctrinally, and things are getting uncomfortable—that’s a New Calvinist church, or a cult, one or the other. Also, in this type of situation in a NC church, they consider these meetings to be steps of Matthew 18. They also consider any type of formal or informal counseling to be part of the discipline process. Regardless of whether you are a member or not, they will formally excommunicate you from the church universal in a Sunday morning service. And by the way, you have no legal grounds for a lawsuit in any state. Please, please, avoid these situations.
9) Watch for signs of exclusiveness; such as, “We preach the scandalous gospel,” ect. Or, “We teach this, as opposed to the ‘vast majority’ of other Christian churches.” “This is what makes us unique.” If you hear verbiage like this, gather your family and run for the nearest exit door. And don’t look back.
10) Watch out for love bombing. An overemphasis on love usually replaces things that are missing—like TRUTH! True loving relationships, even among Christians, are developed over time.
Also, in a NC church, if you are thought to be discerning, you may be approached by an elder with an unsolicited offer to “disciple” you on a weekly basis. This is more than likely for the purpose of neutralizing you as a threat. In many NC churches, this is considered counseling/discipline whether you are aware of it or not. It is known as “redemptive church discipline.” The goal is to bring you to a “redemptive” view of sanctification.
paul
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
If you find yourself trying to ascertain where a church is doctrinally, and things are getting uncomfortable—that’s a New Calvinist church, or a cult, one or the other….. or both
LikeLike
Anon,
Touché. Thank you for the correction.
LikeLike
Do you believe in the virgin birth? If you do, you must be a Roman Catholic since Roman Catholics believe in the virgin birth.
This is the same kind of “logic” you are using in identifying New Calvinists. The redemptive-historical approach is not contradictory to the GH approach. To suggest that it is is irresponsible. Additionally, there were people using the redemptive historical approach long before the idea of New Calvinism was ever conceived. If you should look at the periodical article that coined the term “New Calvinism”, you would find four distinguishing characteristics of NC. Not one of these mentions the redemptive historical approach as one of their distinctives.
LikeLike
Thank you. The posting is a tremendous help and I will be passing on this information to a friend who is considering attending an NC church. Just like us, my friend and her family are in the wilderness season of trying to find a church to attend that is biblical. The concession of many that I know is “there is nowhere else to go” and “there is no perfect church” and during a sermon you can “take in the meat, and throw out the bones” type of mentality. I live in an area that is a melting pot of saturation in Mormonism; JW’s; Seventh Day; Doug Wilson’s; Catholicism; Moody Bible Institute-mysticism spirituality; Rick Warren-Seeker Friendly’s; Calvary Chapel’s (they have issues now, too); and if there is a Community Church it is most likely getting on the bandwagon of NC.
(Deep sigh)
However, we refuse to give up, and with prayer and God’s leading, we have faith that we will find somewhere we can worship!
~Be clothed in the Lord, and wear Him well!
LikeLike
Laurie,
You might want to check out the “Compass Bible Church” and “Aggressive Sanctification” link on my sidebar. As a pastor wrote to me the other day: “They seem to get it.” Susan and I have discussed contacting a ministry like that to start a work here in Xenia. That’s what it is going to boil down to, getting a home missionary movement going where ministries that care about the truth start works in other places. Ministries like that always have a glut of preacher boys who love the truth and would like a place to practice their gift. Susan and I live in what used to be a church building. The pastor’s office is still intact etc., so we are really serious about this.
BTW, Compass is having a conference in January, and I strongly suggest that the many discouraged that contact me here go to that conference to be greatly encouraged with life changing application of God’s word. I am trying to find a way to go myself. Praise the Lord God, he will not leave us without men and women who truly love God’s life-changing word!
LikeLike
Awesome! Thanks for putting this together, I will keep it in my back pocket when asked about what to look for in a church.
LikeLike
This was a very interesting post and much needed.
However, the NC seminary, SBTS, would tell you they use the GHH. If I am not mistaken, Grudem accuses egals of using the RHH and calls it a “trajectory hermenetic” And he is pretty much an early guru for NC!
What I think it going on is the typical NC double speak. Say something but do another.
On a personnel committee at church….am asking candidates for youth pastor what they are reading and let that lead me into other questions concerning doctrine. I also ask what their thoughts are on the YRR movement. Since most of our candidates are from SBTS, we have to be very careful. Lots of SBTS interns are going into established churches and telling people they are not really saved and totally dividing the churches. OUr pastor tells them if you believe such and such you will not be happy here. One SBTS intern told him he was unbiblical because we allow women to teach women!! Women are not to teach at all.
It is really getting wacky out there. These young men are brash and rude. Not Christlike at all. And I wish I could say it is isolated but I live at ground zero of the NC movement and see it upclose.
LikeLike
This total is b.s. This idiot does not know what he is talking about.
LikeLike
Bob,
Just this one, or the other ten posts that you looked at today?
LikeLike
My evaluation after reading your various posts.
LikeLike
Bob,
Soooo, let me get this straight: I’m an idiot, and I’m stupid, but you had to read ten posts to come to that conclusion. Ok, well, now that you have figured that out, just stop visiting. You will be happier, and I like it when people are happy.
LikeLike
Happy April FOOLS Day!
LikeLike
Well, thanks Bob. I appreciate that.
LikeLike
Out of all sincerity, I am curious as to why there seems to be a lot hostility within your post. Of course, I could be falsely reading into it and I do hope that I am not offensive in my judgement. However, many people who I believe you would classify as NC’s have spent a substantial amount of time doing thorough exegesis, theological investigation, and taken seriously systematic approaches to different issues.
When I was reading through your post, it seemed that you wanted to look for the worst part or example of a particular “movement” and presented your best arguments or attacks against those poor examples. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I personally hold to a Reformed view of Soteriology and believe that a thorough ecclesiology within the the New Testament would easy reveal some of the biblically correct forms of leadership, elder-governments, and church discipline that is being implemented in certain NC churches.
When it comes to RHH, all over the NT we get references to Christ revealing himself through the teachings of the OT. After his resurrection Jesus shares within a group of disciples his message and glory through the teachings of Moses. Paul and Peter also do this with their ability to quote from the OT in references to the Redemptive plan of Christ for the entire world, not just for the souls of his church.
If you have encountered churches that happen to look like or claim the title of “New Calvinists” and are not doing things according to your theological views and philosophical preferences, or worst yet, have been hurt by one of these churches I do apologize. Many of these church leaders, institutions, theologians, etc. are faithful lovers of Jesus Christ. They desire to see the world redeemed to Jesus Christ and believe in the powerful presence of the Church of Christ through which God works his redemptive plan to the world.
Lastly, I would readily agree that because of recent trends in publishing, church-planting movements, social-technology, and church growth, the NC movement has looked as if it is gaining some serious traction and because of that a “arrogance” seems to be sprouting amongst the movement. (The arrogance issue I would probably agree with to an extent but it has no bear on how they approach the Word of God) But according to a recent survey and poll conducted by LifeWay research there isn’t really a substantial growth in Calvinist churches or calvinist churches. In fact, the statistics seems to be around the same for the past 15 years. These NC are just more present in the media than in the past.
I hope that my comments were for clarification and for civil criticism. Remember that these are dear brothers and sisters in Christ. They are striving for the utmost glory of Jesus Christ and we should take joy in their pursuit of His Kingdom even if it might look different than our own personal preferences or theological agendas.
Thank you!
Joshua
LikeLike
Joshua,
As one who came from a Reformed background, I would only encourage you to get the real story. Calvin himself taught a progressive justification which is, of course, a false gospel. Sure, MacArthur could fall under what you describe above, but even he has bought into the backdoor denial of the significance of the Trinity, making Christ superior over the Father. Read the Forward he wrote in Rick Holland’s book (which is also full of the Platonism that has always been integrated into Reformed theology). The problem is: New Calvinism is truly a rediscover of the Reformed tradition. They are correct: it is a resurgence of Reformed theology. That’s the problem. And along with it, the usual spiritual tyranny–Geneva style.
paul
LikeLike
Paul, if you knew anything about Compass Bible Church, you’d know it is a cult.
LikeLike
Joseph,
The definition of a cult is any religious origination that seeks to control. I do not think that Fabarez (sp?) is of that mindset, but several of his elders are of the Reformed mindset and that is a religion of control; ie, of the cult category. So, I would be slow to discredit your assertion.
LikeLike