John Piper Show and Tell
SHOW
TELL
For some strange reason, evangelicals continue to tolerate John Piper’s bizarre teachings—including the belief that Christians are still dead in trespasses and sins. However, and per the usual, he chooses his words very carefully so as to not come right out with stating it. Nevertheless, just in case you think he is speaking of the unregenerate, consider that he says: “….why you would call dead people to do things.” If he had the unregenerate in mind, this is certainly a strange choice of words. One might also think to himself: “Wasn’t Lazarus a believer?”
Furthermore, Piper shows his close kinship with Sonship Theology with the whole concept of “speaking life into people.”
And by the way, what’s the difference between what he is saying in the video and this description of metaphysical Christian Science: “In metaphysics the higher rules the lower. What we control in the spiritual realm will manifest in the physical. This process is done by seeing or speaking, affirmations. In the word faith philosophy words have power, they contain the force when spoken in faith…. The concept is to have it birthed in the spiritual realm first and then it will come about in the natural. As one takes the Scripture believing and confessing it the process of supernatural faith begins. One is to speak what they want into existence.”
And no John Piper verbiage would be complete without a direct contradiction to the plain sense of Scripture. He says we “can’t please God” when the apostle Paul makes it clear that we “make it our goal to please Him” and will be judged accordingly at the Bema Seat judgement.
paul
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
“Find quotes from these guys in which they say what you are claiming. If you can’t do that, don’t make your claims. I know how you have assumed you knew what I believe and virtually every time you got it wrong.
Give me a quote where Chandler denies the reality of the new birth. Don’t”
Seriously? You want him to produce quotes of Chandler or Piper denying the New Birth? That is not how it works, my friend. Many times it is what they leave out that makes them false teachers. Anytime you present half a picture, it is not the whole “truth”. And that is what they do. They change definitions (I know how this works because I helped the seekers do it) and load the language and then appeal to human authority and their interpretations (experts or those they claim are specially anointed), then you circle the wagons. (Many are circling them for Mahaney right now)
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Actually, I quote Piper in a post as plainly saying that the new birth is not applicable to the objective gospel.
> —–Original Message—– >
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My problem with Paul is that he has assumed that I believe many things I don’t believe. He never asks me what I believe; he tells me what I believe and then reacts to that. If he wants to show I believe something, all he needs to do is go to my website and find hard, fast quotes. I think you will find if you visit the site, everything is straight forward with no hidden agenda. Since I teach New Covenant Theology he asserts that I must be a New Calvinist and must have an affinity for people I don’t even know. Frankly, I don’t care much what these guys say. It really doesn’t affect me very much. What I do know is that if I believe something, you aren’t going to have to divine what I believe. You will be able to find many quotations to prove it.
If these guys believe that regeneration doesn’t occur, certainly they must have said something like that somewhere. I just want to see the evidence. If Paul can misrepresent my views so badly, I have to assume he is capable of misrepresenting theirs as well. This is especially true since I have have looked at statements and watched videos in which he claimed they were saying things they simply didn’t say.
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Lydia,
That last post was mine.
Randy
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Lydia,
If I don’t tell you I am white, do you assume, without any additional evidence, that I am black? I don’t think so. You can’t assume I don’t believe in the new birth simply because you don’t hear it in my message.
Randy
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“He never asks me what I believe; he tells me what I believe and then reacts to that. If he wants to show I believe something, all he needs to do is go to my website and find hard, fast quotes.”
Randy, This is not really my fight. But I will ask; what brought you here? Was it to defend some of these guys and claim they are not teaching what Paul claims they are? I think Paul is right that they misrepresent sanctification and what it is. I went a step further and said they leave out the Holy Spirit because they are busy being the Holy Spirit for you. THEY want to convict you of your sin and keep you there. I think a big part of it is that they really don’t want people to mature in Christ because they won’t need them anymore or buy their books telling uswhat to believe.
I was stunned when I found this site. Someone who gets it! It is like a desert out here unless you are part of the adoring fan club of Piper, Mohler, etc. I call them the Calvinistas. Especially where I live. It is the big thing and taking over many churches covertly. The seminary (SBTS) is churning them out faster than Muslims have babies. They are of Driscoll. They are of Mahaney. They are of Piper. And they are fanatics.
But I can promise you that Paul and I probably disagree on some things. But that is not what this is about here. It is about the half picture of salvation they present to people. They do not come out and say, we are staying on Justification and there is no sanctifiction. It is silly to demand such quotes. It is what they consistently leave out and who their audience is. They are not street preachers. They are teaching mostly young pastors or wannabe pastors with heads full of mush! And these young men adore them to the point of fanaticism. It is like Mick Jagger for the Gospel set. The rise of the celebrity pastor is a fairly new thing when you look back on history. Yes, there were well known evangelist but we have reached a critical mass that is deafening. There are guru’s for the guru’s.
So, why did you come here? To defend Piper? New Covenant theology? I am not so sure doctrine is the big thing for these guys. I think it is a means to an end. I think it is more about celebrity, fame, influence, etc.Itis almost as if they believe they have discovered a new truth about Christ.
I think a lot of what we areseeing in the new Reformed movement and why it is sweeping our land is a backlash to the shallow focus of seeker and emergent movements. The “Jesus is my boyfriend” types. This is just my take. So many people I meet in it come from these backgrounds and are looking for a more serious doctrinal focus than 3 pt topical sermons week after week about having great sex . But alas, the NC talk about sex all the time, too!
The conversation of the emergents never went anywhere (Driscoll was emergent) and the seeker world is Christian entertainment on steriods. Also, everyone thinks NC is “intellectual” but I have never seen so much illogic in all my life. Special pleading, ad hominem attacks, redefining words, loaded language, specially anointed people with special knowledge, etc ad nauseum. And I thought the seekers were bad!
On a blog made up mainly of young SBC Reformed pastors, one young pastor, who is always right and very arrogant, said that Calvinism (New Calvinism) protects us from liberalism infesting our churches. . Huh? Has he never heard of the presbyterians as in PCUSA? I used to do quite a bit of business with their seminary here and I can tell you they are liberal Calvinists!
I told him that but he just pleaded that they were not “real Calvinists”. (he gets to define Calvinism FOR me)These guys are not being taught to think at all. They rely on the teaching of authortarianism to protect them in their positions. (The specially anointed)
And they play, ‘my expert is better than your expert’ all the time. They seek out mere humans for truth! That is what a lack of understanding sanctification with do for you. At first I was thrilled anyone wanted to talk doctrine at all after leaving the seeker world. But I came to see it was a grim trade.
I could give you example after example. Mainly that we ‘do not understand them’ or ‘do not read them in context’, etc.
See, you have to have “special knowledge” to follow this new religion. But it is only given to a few to explain to the rest of us.
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yep.
> —–Original Message—– >
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“If I don’t tell you I am white, do you assume, without any additional evidence, that I am black? I don’t think so. You can’t assume I don’t believe in the new birth simply because you don’t hear it in my message.”
I have assumed something about you? I am here discussing the New Calvinists and what they teach and don’t teach. If I assumed something incorrectly about you, I am very sorry. What attracted you to this site?
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Lydia said:
“What attracted you to this site?”
ME! He has a crush on me that just won’t quit!
> —–Original Message—– >
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http://crbcviews.blogspot.com/
Check this out…Fallacy of Fallacies by Tom Chantry..
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“Objective” refers to that which is outside of and not dependent on my experience. It is true whether I experience it or not.
“Subjective” refers to that which enters into the realm of my experience.
Jesus secured my redemption on the cross. I was reconciled when he died. That was the objective reality, objective gospel long before I was regenerated. The new birth is not applicable to the objective gospel. That does not mean the new birth is not a reality in my subjective experience in the application of redemption. It simply means it was objectively accomplished apart from my subjective experience of it.
In reality, the new birth is not part of the gospel at all. It is clearly part of the application of redemption, but those are two decidedly different things. Nowhere does the gospel say that if you believe you will be born again. The gospel does say if you believe, you will be justified
Randy
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Well, if that is the case, guess it is time for teaching on the proper man hug so there are no misunderstandings….
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-give-a-great-man-to-man-hug
Just to lighten things up a bit
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Lydia,
My point about the black/white thing is that you can’t assume something about me by what I don’t say. There has to be some evidence.
Actually, I was looking for sites about NCT and found this guy who thinks he knows what he is talking about and doesn’t have a clue.
Randy
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