Open Discussion: The Horton Statement That Nobody Wants To Talk About
Christless Christianity, page 62:
“Where we land on these issues is perhaps the most significant factor in how we approach our own faith and practice and communicate it to the world. If not only the unregenerate but the regenerate are always dependent at every moment on the free grace of God disclosed in the gospel, then nothing can raise those who are spiritually dead or continually give life to Christ’s flock but the Spirit working through the gospel. When this happens (not just once, but every time we encounter the gospel afresh), the Spirit progressively transforms us into Christ’s image. Start with Christ (that is, the gospel) and you get sanctification in the bargain; begin with Christ and move on to something else, and you lose both.”
Paul's Passing Thoughts 
To post of 6:58.
Though this is somewhat aside from the issue, an eating disorder is not so much about what you are eating as it is about what is eating you. People don’t over eat because they like the taste of food, but because they are trying to fill a void [this is really true with all kinds of sins].
Make all the rules you want. Rules won’t work. If he becomes satisfied with the Lord Jesus, I suspect the problem will take care of itself. I know that “sends you up the wall” because you do not yet have a handle on the inability of law to deal with sin, but it is true nonetheless. The law was never intended to curb sin. Indeed, it cannot do so because it is dealing with sinners. Jesus has done what the law could not do. If you don’t believer that, your argument is not with me but with the Apostle Paul.
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Neither do I want to get sidetracked by the whole other issue concerning the integration of postmodern thought and Freudian Depth Psychology into NCT, especially Christian Hedonism, which teaches (like Freud) that we are controlled by desire. Change the desire–change behavior. Hence, contemplating Christ in the Scriptures makes us desire Him more, and then we will be controlled by that desire.
> —–Original Message—– >
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To post of 6:39
1. I have no problem with this point except that the statement doesn’t say, “The Spirit works only through the gospel.” Where are those words in Horton’s statement? The Spirit uses God’s providential intervention in our lives, other Christians exhorting us etc.
2. The statement says nothing about sanctification by justification alone. I believe sanctification is motivated by gratitude for free justification, but that is a decidedly different thing from the way you have framed the issue. Again, I don’t see that in Horton’s statement. I would be happy to look at citations of passages in which he actually says that, including his explanation of such a statement. Justification and sanctification are inseparably linked. “If one died for all justification”, then all died [to the reigning power of sin] Sanctification. J and S are like Siamese twins; they are different but they always go together [sorry to be so trite] If you aren’t being sanctified, you have never been justified.
3. For any thinking person, Horton’s statement could not be construed to say what you have supposed. He doesn’t say that and clearly doesn’t mean that. It is simply that we are not sanctified because we work; we work because we are being sanctified…. WORK out your own salvation, BECAUSE it is God who is working in you . . . .
4. I don’t have the slightest idea what you mean by this point. Perhaps you can explain what in the name of Zeus’ butt hole this has to do with Horton’s statement or our discussion.
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Randy,
For the most part, readers can judge what both of us have said for themselves, but “loose[ing] both” justification and sanctification if we move onto anything else but the gospel should be pretty clear.
> —–Original Message—– >
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Paul,
I think you probably need to stick to responding to what people actually write or say and not to what significance you think their statements might have on some distant planet in a solar system far far away. If a snake crosses your path, go ahead and kill it if you feel the urge, but you gotta stop snake hunting, man. More to the point, you must give up on the imaginary snakes.
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“The cat ran across the street.” But, what’s that mean in context? Christians need to be made alive everyday as they visit the gospel “afresh.” But, gee, what does “afresh” mean in context?
> —–Original Message—– >
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Paul,
Please answer my question about #4
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Please answer my question re: #4
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Randy,
see above, and this: http://wp.me/pmd7S-lq
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I am fairly confident you will try to twist this statement too but the truth is if we look to anyone or anything but God and the gospel for any spiritual blessing, then we have never rested on Christ aright. Yes, sanctification is by faith, but that doesn’t mean we are passive in the process. You know that is what I believe so we should be able to move on from that and not continue to beat a dead horse. I am pretty confident Horton would agree. If you can produce quotes to show that he doesn’ t, I would be happy to consider them.
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Randy,
Bottom line: In GS, the limited role of the “believer” is three-fold: Contemplation of the gospel; faith; deep repentance. That’s what you mean by, “not passive.”
> —–Original Message—– >
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I mean, really. we live in an age where people actually swallow the following–it’s just really scary:
“That’s just gospel—perfectly timed, perfectly applied, perfectly suited to my need. That’s why the Bible is so thick—because there are so many different needs that you have. And there are suitable places where the gospel is unfolded for you, so that if you immerse yourself in the whole book, always with an eye for what Christ has wrought for you and purchased for you in this thick, glorious history of God’s interaction with people, he will give you what you need.”
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There you go again Paul. The statement does not say Christians need to be made alive everyday. You certainly aren’t denying we as Christ’s flock receive Christ resurrection life every moment of every day are you? That is what Jesus meant by feasting on him, the bread of life.
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Again, what does “afresh” mean? What is he then saying happens when we revisit the gospel “afresh.”
> —–Original Message—– >
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I looked at the link you suggested and did not agree with Brinsmead’s interpretation of “Letter” and “Spirit.” Also, I am not sure what his last statement was talking about. Apart from that, I didn’t find any problem with what I found there. Perhaps you could cut and paste the “see above” statement since I don’t know what you are referring to.
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